The Proverbs 31 Ministries Podcast

Note: Please note that the text below is an uncorrected transcript of the audio captured for this podcast. We pray the Lord uses these words to bless you as you seek Him!

Well, hello friends, and welcome back to the Proverbs 31 Ministries podcast where we share biblical truth for any girl in any season. I'm your host Meredith Brock and I am here with my friend, the lovely Kaylee Olson. Hey, Kaylee. Hey, Meredith. How you doing?

I'm doing pretty great today. Hi, sweetie. I I think you're gonna share with our friends here a little bit about what they're gonna hear today. I am. I'm so excited.

We always love when we get to have the lovely Lisa. We got two lovely people. You can definitely love the lovely lady too, Meredith. But we love it whenever we get to have Lysa TerKeurst on the show because, one, any time with Lysa is time well spent. Like, she's just so fun and such a wealth of wisdom.

But, two, the topic we discuss is trust. You guys know this. But Lysa's latest book, I Want to Trust You, But I Don't, has been and continues to be such a hit with readers that as she was planning the content, Lisa didn't wanna leave any of you hanging. And this is what I love about Lisa. She knew that whenever you're reading a book that's heavy, like, I wanna trust you, but I don't, you would probably be thinking, oh, man.

I've got a lot to process. Yeah. What do I do with all of this? And how do I, you know, how do I pray through this? How do I know that I'm making progress in the area of trust?

And so Lisa knew that you guys would be asking this question and feeling this tension. And so she created a product that accompanies the book called The Trust Journey, which I feel like is the perfect title because trust is not, linear. Yeah. It's not a box to check. It's not a box to check.

It is very much so a journey. And guys, this is a beautiful journal for you to lean even deeper into the content of the book, process what the Lord is speaking to you, and make progress on your own. And so today on the show, you're gonna hear from Lisa, Meredith, and myself, and we'll talk a little bit about what trust looks like for us in each season of our lives and kinda how we've been taking the content of I wanna trust you, but I don't and how it's applied to us in the season that we're in. And honestly, I feel like it's something that you could listen to today's episode and go talk to a friend about it over coffee. And I just think it's a great conversation.

That's right. And I'm sure some of you might be just jumping at the gun to go purchase The Trust Journey. So let me tell you exactly how you can do that. You can purchase it from us at p31bookstore.com. And don't forget, this journey is taken with Lisa's book, I wanna trust you, but I don't.

So we've put together a bundle for you on our bookstore to make it super easy to have both resources at the same time because you'll want that for sure. Also, in today's episode, we mentioned a free resource from Lisa called Trust is a Track Record, five days of scriptural truths to remember God's faithfulness. This is a totally free resource for you that you can use on hard days when you need a reminder that God is who he says he is, and he will do what he says he will do. He is trustworthy. All you need to do is click on the link in the show notes and enter your email, and these five devotions will go straight to your inbox.

That is absolutely true. And shameless plug, guys, if you were listening to the podcast and you love this content and it has made a difference in your life, we wanna know about it. So go hit that review button on Apple Podcasts and share with us. Write a written review about how it's changed your life. And that's all.

We're gonna dive into today's episode. Well, we are so excited to welcome the one and only Lisa TerKeurst to the show today. Lisa, one of the things that I feel like our listeners really need to know about you is that you're an all in kind of person. Like, when you when you find something new or, like, new to you that you really love, you you get obsessed with it in the best way. And I love following along on this journey with you.

And I do that through social media and just, you know, happenings around the office here. But I want our listeners to know, what's the latest Lisa obsession? Okay. Well, I'll tell you what comes to mind because I I have several, but then I want you to say which one you were particularly thinking of Okay. When when you asked me this question.

Okay. Okay. So, I mean, I'm currently obsessed with pajamas, Okay. Like, the right really good pajama. And there's so many factors that play into that whole situation.

Behind this. Yeah. And, so but my real obsession right now, and it has been for quite a while, is Monopoly Deal. Yeah. That's I play so many games of Monopoly Deal.

You love it. I mean, even when I'm working, I think about, like, when is when is the time that I could just take a little break and just play, like, a game of Monopoly Deal? Because it really does energize me. I need another day of just Monopoly Deal boot camp training because that one that one game was not enough for me. It's a it's a hard game to learn.

It is. Worthy. And I didn't have it. Okay. I'll tell you what I was thinking.

I I can't wait to share what I was thinking. Oh, no. Thrifting. Lisa, thrifting. I love that.

I love thrifting, but seeing you post about me at Goodwill and and your latest finds has just made me so happy because I thought, Lisa likes this too. I do. Are you still are you still into it? Yes. I have a frequent buyer card at Goodwill.

We love you for that. If y'all didn't know that Lisa TerKeurst is one of the most normal human beings ever. Now you know. Now you've met them. Now I might make her weird because let me tell you the obsession I was thinking about.

Oh, no. Why are you not talking about your Reese's Pieces obsession? Oh, yes. This is true. I know.

Guys, hold on. I need everyone to know that Lisa, I don't know if she's doing it today, carries a king-size bag of Reese's Pieces around in her purse and eats them out of her purse. I heard heard some all day long. That she didn't bring them to the recording. Well, here's here's the situation.

I do have a box of Reese's Pieces in my purse. The problem is I flung my purse this morning, and all the Reese's Pieces fell to the bottom of my purse. So I even told Shay and Joel when we were in our study time earlier that I'm sorry I'm constantly digging in the bottom of my purse, but I have to rescue my Reese's Pieces. Because y'all, she doesn't care that those Reese's Pieces are rolling around in there with makeup. She's gonna have some.

And I'm gonna tell you the truth. I have eaten Reese's Pieces out of Lisa's purse as well. I'm a beneficiary That's amazing. Of the Reese's Pieces obsession. I know.

But here's the here's the dynamic. It has cured my desire for any other sugar. Okay. It really has. Hey.

I love that. I don't want any desserts. I don't want any Just a couple Reese's Pieces. Yes. And so it's like the lesser of two evils.

So if we want to get the sita come somewhere, we can do the ET thing in the movie where, you know, she, like, drops the little Oh, Reese's in the trail. Oh, I will follow that trail. Come. Alright. Well, Lisa, we are not here to talk about Reese's Pieces, though it is delightful and fun.

I'm so excited that you're on the show today because as many of our listeners know and as Kaylee and I know personally, you have been on a journey, really, the last two years unpacking some really hard things around trusting God, trusting people, and just the big topic of trust in general. And so last October, you released a book, I wanna trust you, but I don't. Fantastic book has helped me personally so much. But we learned along the way that people the book is so helpful and opens up so many things in people's hearts and minds that maybe they had not, had the courage to dive into in the past that we really you really needed to create, a companion product for people to really process trust personally. And so that book is called The Trust Journey.

And Lisa, I would love for you to tell us a little bit about why you created the book, and what was the heartbeat behind it that perfect because it's a lot of work, guys. I just want our listeners to know, you don't write a book, like, on a whim. It is a major commitment. And so I watched you as you wrote that book wrestle with some things, that I think our listeners would really benefit from hearing. Well, thank you, Meredith.

Yeah. The subtitle of I wanna trust you, but I don't is moving forward when you're skeptical of others, afraid of what God will allow, and doubtful of your own discernment. So you sit with any one of those categories, situations, whatever you wanna call it, and it naturally lends itself to wanting a place to not just read about this, but to have a place to process it so that personal application can really lead to transformation. And, yes, we can all pull out a blank journal, and I love blank journals. I love any kind of paper products.

That's another obsession, Kaylee, in the office supply aisle at any store. But, yeah, we can pull out a blank journal and we can do it, but I wanted to guide people through some of the exercises that both I learned in therapy, but also I developed myself, to help me not just know these truths, but truly live out these truths. And so, yeah. So, I worked with this, on the journal with my one of my very best friends, Melon Chitwood, so that's another exciting part of this. And yes, we would work a lot, and then we would play games of Monopoly Deal, and we would work a lot too.

So just bringing it all back together. Yes, ma'am. But, throughout the journal, you'll have prompts that will guide you into writing and processing things so that you don't have to think of what's the best way to process the information that I'm reading in the trust book. And another feature of this journal that I love so much is we made sure it was long enough to give you plenty of space to write. I don't like it when I'm supposed to fill something out, and, you know, I use larger block kind of letters, and when I run out of space to write, it kind of derails in my process.

And so I really like the feature of that in this book. But the other thing that I wanted people to know about is it's full of pictures of me on this journey, and, so the pictures are beautiful. We actually did a photo shoot right before, my wedding in the French Alps, and it that sounds really fancy. It it was just a cost comparison thing. It was actually cheaper for us to do the deal that we got going there than it was to go out west, and so we took advantage of it.

Wild right now, man. And so, cost comparison wise, it made sense, but also, wow, the beauty of where we were. And I wanted to create visual serenity in this book and let people see that I really was walking them through. And so, throughout the book, you'll see, a picture of me walking or sitting and pondering or me writing in my own journal. And not that I'm a big fan of pictures.

You guys know every time you try to schedule a photo shoot with me, I'm like, wah wah. Don't wanna do this. Don't you have old pictures to pull from? But I imagined you, the reader, with every picture that we took. I imagined us being right there together.

And that's really the feel of the journal, is to know that not only are there guided prompts, but you also have a friend who understands. Yeah. That's beautiful, Lys. I mean, I have, read through and looked through that book, and it really is both a journey. I think that's the right word since that's the title of it.

We ended up there of both a visual journey, and it brings the reader through the individual through a journey of really looking at where do I have trust issues, and where do I really need to surrender to God and do some inner personal work. Yeah. And I don't do a journal for every book I write, but this book, this message really lent itself to that. So there's two companions to I Want to Trust You, but I Don't, the actual book. There's the Bible Study Companion, which, you're able to watch some videos and, you know, have a Bible study group and fill out the answers and dig deeper into scripture, and I love that aspect of it, and I do that with every book.

But I really felt for this message, there also needed to be a personal reflection product that, like I said, could guide people through their own processing, And so while the Bible study digs deeper into scripture, this really digs deeper into what's really going on in your heart. Yeah. And trust is the oxygen of all human relationships, and not one of us gets through life without some forms of betrayal and some forms of broken trust. And so the big mantra that I keep saying and that I have truly lived out is broken trust can be life altering, but it doesn't have to be life ruining. Like, broken trust can affect relationships, but that doesn't mean that broken trust has to destroy all relationships.

And Meredith, something that you taught me that I'm so thankful for is that when trust has been broken in the context of a relationship, trust also has to be prepared in the context of a relationship, even if it's not the relationship where the trust was originally broken. But you can't isolate and expect to fix trust. And so my propensity sometimes is to pull back, to isolate, to get by myself, and then to numb myself out, And that, usually, my numbing thing that I wanna numb myself out with is busyness and distraction. There's lots of numbing opportunities for people, but that just happens to be mine. And I remember one time I went to my therapist, Jim Kress, who you're probably familiar with if you listen to therapy and theology, and I went to Jim, and I said that the loneliness was really killing me, and he said, Lisa, I would advise you to learn to go home and sit in the quiet, and use that as an opportunity to sit with your thoughts, but also to listen.

Wow. Well, I thought that was the worst advice ever. I'm like, I just told you I'm really struggling with extreme loneliness. And you know, loneliness can happen when you've had your heart broken, and so you're dealing with all these heavy emotions, and you're carrying the gravity of that situation, but you can be around other people and and still have the loneliness of carrying the weight of that heartbreak. Yeah.

And that's whether it's, like with me, the betrayal of a spouse or friendship breakups or misunderstandings in, you know, family relationships or whatever. There's so many dynamics or so many opportunities for the devil to get a foothold in relationships that have gone a little bit sideways or that are disappointing. And so when Jim taught me to go home and be alone with my own thoughts, that was a terrifying thing, because I didn't know how to do that, but a sign of a mentally healthy person is they can be alone with their own thoughts and be okay, and to extend that more even into our Christian walk, It's to learn to be alone with our own thoughts and be brave enough to listen to what the Lord, what the Holy Spirit is wanting to help us do in redirecting those thoughts or intending well to those thoughts, And so I really saw this journal as an opportunity to help people do just that. It's okay if you need to get a loan to process, just don't isolate. And I think that this journal, which we call the trust journey, I think it's gonna be a way for people to tend well to their feelings, to tend well to some of those deeper things they need to process so that they can reengage in community, they can reengage in relationships, and feel better equipped to do so.

Yeah. That's so good, Lisa. I remember when I was reading I Wanna Trust You, But I Don't in the in the early stages when you were writing it. I get to be one of the lucky few that reads the first iterations of our chapters. And there's a chapter in I wanna trust you, but I don't that's all about control.

And I think maybe you wrote that chapter for me. I mean, you don't have to tell anyone. I think maybe it was written for me. What was your clue when I wrote across your paper dedicated to Meredith? But it's so true, guys.

And what you were just referring to, you know, you're you're attributing this idea of, like, if your trust is wounded in a relationship, it has to be healed within the context of a relationship. That that thought came out of my own trust issues and my own control issues. And so let me let me put a little color on this, Kaye. I've been deeply wounded by some family members. And so I my way of dealing with it was to remove myself completely, get out of my life.

You know, like I can't you're this is too crazy. You hurt me too much. I completely withdraw. And then I shut the door on my heart to even go anywhere close those places of wounding. You know?

And so as you and I unpacked as you were writing the book, it was I had to realize, and this has been through my own process over the years in therapy and with the Lord, that I've got to open that that door on my heart with people that are trustworthy so that it can heal in that context. And it was so hard for me because I had so much resistant to it because I was afraid of losing control. Mhmm. You know? And so the chapter, and I wanna trust you, but I don't, all about control was so helpful to me to really get some perspective on like, wow.

It looks like on the outside that I'm just doing this to make sure everybody's good. When in reality, it's me trying to control the situation so I don't get hurt. Yeah. You know? And so talk to that.

Does the trust journey talk at all about any of the control issues? Because it was something that I don't think I even really saw. I needed somebody to help me pull back my own layers to see it. Yeah. Because slamming the door to your heart, while it can be self protective, it it does not lead to the healing that we ultimately want.

It leads to loneliness. Yeah. Just like you were saying. And sometimes when that has happened in some relationships, it can bleed over into all of our relationships, and what we don't trust, we will try to control. That's right.

Okay. So I'm gonna say that one more time. She's saying it to me, y'all. Say it louder for the people in the back. But what we don't trust, we try to control.

That's right. And I think it is all in a sense of being able to manage our emotions so that we don't send ourselves into a tailspin and feel terribly unsafe That's right. By opening up and revealing certain things that people in the past have known about us and used against us or weaponized our sensitivity. You know, the interesting thing about you, Meredith, is you do sometimes have this very capable, very, like, confident and, and like, just like, I'm gonna get it done. I can conquer the world, like exterior.

But I know, because you and I have been friends for a long time, that deep inside of you, you're one of the most tender people that I know, and I think sometimes that tenderness, the the over, like, exterior being like, I can conquer the world, but the interior being like, I can't let people in because I'm just gonna get hurt, is your self awareness, which is awesome. You're self aware that that tender place exists in you. And no matter how you're wired, we all feel tender inside. We all have areas about our life that may play out differently, but, like, for me, like, you want control. For me, I want peace, but I try to control my environment to get to the peace that I'm so desperate for.

One thing in the book, in the journal that's not in the book, is a way for us to be able to have those conversations as we are trying to, like, increase our trust muscles with people who are safe. Maybe they're not the ones that betrayed us, but also, when you have your trust broken in a big way, it can make us hesitant and skeptical even toward other people. Right? But I have, a five step framework for a conversation that needs to be had when we go through micro rips in our trust, because sometimes that's the best way to start to repair trust, is not tackling the huge issues, but tackling some of those everyday happenings where it's like it's just chipping away at, can I really trust you or can I not? And it is normal for people to disappoint us.

No one can live up to the standard of perfection in a relationship. So, it's normal for these things to happen, but the number one killer for relationships right now is simmering resentments. So if we don't know how to have these conversations about the micro rips in our trust, they will turn into much larger situations, and bubbling underneath will be all these resentments from conversations that should have been had that were never had. So I'm preaching to myself here. I just want you to know, I have not perfected this.

Matter of fact, as I'm as the words are coming out of my mouth right now, I'm like, yeah, you need to have one of these conversations in one of your relationships that you're talking about here. Okay. So let me give you this five step framework. Number one is feeling. And so when you start the conversation, it's important to clearly state, this is what I'm feeling.

So and you don't have to get it perfectly. Like, maybe you're feeling frustrated, but it you're gonna express it as I'm feeling angry, or maybe you're feeling sad, but it's gonna come across as like I'm feeling unsafe, whatever it is. So don't don't feel like you have to name it perfectly, because what we're really trying to get at is just that first expression of emotion, then the second thing is what we're really going for. So number one, this is what I'm feeling. Number two, this is what's feeding that feeling.

Okay. So that's where the the repair is actually gonna get some traction here, because people say, like, don't let feelings dictate, you know, how you act and react. I've said that many times, and that is true. But our feelings need to be good indicators that something needs to be addressed. So don't shame yourself for having big feelings, but the way that we react within those feelings is gonna be much more productive if we are able to establish, this is what's feeding that feeling.

So let me give you an example. I'm feeling frustrated, and what is feeding that feeling is every time we agree to meet, you show up late. See what I'm saying? So it's like, however I'm feeling, I'm feeling angry, I'm feeling frustrated, I'm feeling disappointed, whatever that feeling is, but where the real traction can start to happen is, like, what's feeding that feeling is more specific. Like, you show up late every single time, or I'm feeling like I can't trust you when I've asked if you've paid that bill, and you told me you'll take care of it, and then we get a late notice.

So what's feeding that feeling of frustration or distrust or whatever is the fact that you told me you're gonna do something, and you didn't do it. That makes me hesitant to trust you the next time a bill needs to be paid. Okay. So what am I feeling? What is feeding that feeling?

The third thing is the facts around this situation, and there are facts. Like, here is a bill, you didn't pay it, we got a late notice, and that affects potentially affects our credit. And so there are facts on my side, but remember, there's facts on the other person's side. So this gives them an opportunity to say, okay, not to make an excuse, but if there's facts that need to be considered here, like, here are the facts. The facts are I put the bill in the pile to be paid.

Other stuff got piled on top of it. This isn't an this is a mistake. It's not gonna be a pattern of behavior, and so I wanna have the opportunity to share those facts. So both people are able to share the facts of the situation. Again, not blaming, not shaming, not making excuses, but just truly getting the facts out.

So this is what I'm feeling. This is what's feeding the feeling. These are the facts of the situations. Now number four, figure out and process what I need or what I desire. So this is where let's take the bill analogy.

Okay. We've got to figure out a system of checks and balances so that I don't have to live with the constant stress of worrying that more bills are not getting paid. So how can we figure this out together so that trust can be reestablished? Because remember, trust is built time plus believable behavior. So I need a way to see that over time, truly, this is not a pattern that you're not paying bills, but this was a mistake that that one bill didn't get paid.

Right? And so time plus believable behavior, how can we figure out a checks and balances system so that I'm able to see without stress and without questioning you constantly, and without having to keep that weight on my brain that I have to check behind you because I'm afraid you're not gonna actually do it? How can I see that we have figured out a good solution, a good system to move forward? And then the last one, finally, is let's make a plan to move forward in a better way since we have this conversation. And so that last step would be, hey, when you pay the bill, just come and tell me.

Like, when you pay the bill, just say, hey, I want you to let I wanna let you know the bill was due on the fifteenth, and I paid it on the twelfth, and I just wanted to communicate that to you so that we can continue to move forward in what was a micro rip in our relationship. Mhmm. That I feel like all of the spouses listening, all the all the moms, I'm not I don't have teenagers yet, but, both of you well, almost Meredith, but I'm I have 13 year old. That's okay. We gotta talk about that later.

Wild. But I feel like, Lisa, what you are so gifted in is giving people language to not, over control a situation, but how to have a healthy conversation when you're in your head and you're kind of going, Am I crazy? I don't want this other person to think that I'm trying to control them or micromanage them. But also, inside, I have this deep need for reassurance that you are moving and making progress on the things that you broke. And that, rips and repairs chapter for me was so helpful.

And I found myself going back to it, especially in this season of life, because practical is the most helpful right now. Yeah. But, a few years ago, the rug kind of got ripped out from underneath me. And so there was kind of like the ripping of the rug, and then I know like the big rip of my trust being broken with a person in a certain area, and being able to have language from that chapter, to know this person is making progress on repairing what they've ripped. And you list out, like, 18 questions or 18 things to consider that show, at the end of the day, what you want to look for is the fruit in their life that they're actually making progress.

And some of those Now I know when when somebody hears 18 18 is a lot. They're like, what? But the reason that there are so many steps that need to be considered when there's been a rip in relationship, and these 18 steps are the repair opportunities that someone can take, is because I didn't want anybody to have to make any illogical leaps. So I broke it down into the baby steps, one by one by one by one, of exactly how to repair broken trust and the conversations that need to be had. So there's a difference between big T, like trauma trust issues, you know, where the trust has just been decimated, and then there's little trust issues.

So I have indicated with the 18 steps, if it's a big T trauma, broken trust, all 18 steps apply. If it's more of a, like, everyday trust is broken or something that's not quite as impactful as, like, a massive betrayal, You can see, I've indicated, like, okay, there's not 18 steps for that, but you can scale this back, and here are the steps that you can take to repair the smaller issues. The thing is that I didn't have this information. Yeah. Like, to say, go rebuild trust, to me, was just this massive thing that I was not equipped to do.

So as I went through my healing journey, and I learned so much in studying theology and therapy and just my own personal experiences, trial and error. I wrote out step by step by step, this is what you can do to repair trust. Yeah. I love it so much, Lise, because I'm just sitting here literally reflecting, and we won't go into detail, but I'm reflecting on a on a dinner plate situation that happened just last night. We won't we won't name any names, but I am the reason it's coming into my mind is because in the moment, there was an agreement, everybody's gonna clean their dishes and put them in the dishwasher.

It was a request I made by because I was feeling very overwhelmed with having to do all the chores in the house. And so it was a it was a family decision. Particular individual chose not to do that last night, and I felt myself get resentful. I felt it and I was like, it was getting angry. Every time I would walk past the sink, I would look at it, you know, and then I would think to myself, how do I address this?

Like, I don't know how to address this without attacking. I'm and coming across like insane. It's just a dinner plate for heaven's sakes, you know? And so I think this is so helpful because it's those little moments of the dinner plate, the, you know, missed bill that over time, and I think it's really, I don't know if it's primarily a female thing, it's probably a male thing too, but it's that desire to keep peace in a relationship. And so you're willing to overlook something, but over time, it becomes a rip and it becomes this this chasm between two people.

And this framework is just so it's simple. It is approachable, absolutely achievable. It makes addressing the dinner plate so much less dramatic than like, why did you leave? I told you that that was something. It didn't have to be that way.

You know, it can just be the simple steps to be like, okay. Hey. This was something, you know, that it's just so much more achievable. So Yeah. Incredibly helpful.

Thank you. Yeah. In the in the five step framework, it's like a way instead of having a confrontation, like, I need to talk to you about something, which is the dreaded sentence, like, no man wants to hear their wife say that. Right? And I don't wanna hear it from him either.

Yes. I mean, we need to talk. You know? It's like, oh, no. Here we go.

Right? But it's like, hey. Can we do a check-in real quick? Yeah. You know?

So it's not like this massive taking it to an extreme. We have the worst issues ever. It's like, hey. I just need to do a check-in real quick. This is what I'm feeling.

This is what's feeding that feeling. These are the facts. You know? And it just becomes a way for people to get in the healthier rhythm. Yeah.

Yeah. Now I know, Kaylee, what you were talking about is, like, massive, trust that's been broken or even, like, a betrayal by, I don't know, in your situation. It was it could be a friend, a family member, or whatever. But it's like, okay, like, this needs more than just that check-in that we were just talking about. This needs some intentional work, because remember, time is built.

Trust is built. Time plus believable behavior. So what are those steps we need to walk through? And that's what I outlined super clearly, step by step by step, so that you don't have to also put in so much work to figure this out. You can see, I've already figured it out for you, but now you can work on making progress.

Well, what I love about this and the way that it goes with the book, and just how the trust journey applies to anyone going through broken trust on any level is that you are working through rebuilding your own trust. Meredith, you talked about, like, rebuilding control or, like, releasing that and giving it back to God. So there's the work that you have to do as a person and as an individual. And then there's also the work you're wanting someone else to do. And I feel like the trust journey is someone's thing that can kind of help anchor them for that period in time, and allow them to focus and put on the work on what only they can control.

Because we can't control the other person. But when we go on that journey of rebuilding our own trust and reworking those healthy habits, we can respond better to the person that we're wanting to rebuild something with. And so I'm just so thankful that you wrote the book all those years ago, two years ago, almost. Yeah. That was when it was really.

But now that we've got this journal to go with it. And so, Meredith, I would love for you to tell our listeners where they can get their hands on the trust journey. Absolutely. Well, first of all, I would say before you I mean, grab the trust journey and the book. The book was so helpful for me because it really opened my eyes to some places Yeah.

That I didn't even know I needed to process. Like, I didn't even know, oh, wow. I have been shoving that and hiding that away in my heart. Yeah. And it kinda exposed some areas.

And then I was ready for the trust journey. Right. I was ready for this journal to dive into it. So if you're ready to get either one of these products, you can head on over to the Proverbs thirty one bookstore @p31bookstore.com. And I just would encourage you read the book alongside the journal itself.

I think that you're gonna find a lot of healing, like I did. Yeah. And we've, built a bundle for you for your convenience. And so you can just go click that one link, and we got you, girl. Also, guys, don't forget to download your free copy of Trust is a Track Record, Five Scriptural Truths to Remember God's Faithfulness by Lisa Tuckers.

We pray this free resource is a reminder that the Lord's character is always something we can consistently count on no matter how uncertain our circumstances may seem. You can download it using the link in our show notes below. That's all for today, friends. At Proverbs thirty one Ministries, we believe when you know the truth and live the truth, it changes everythin