The Proverbs 31 Ministries Podcast

Meredith:
Hello, friends. Welcome back to the Proverbs 31 Ministries Podcast, where we share biblical truth for any girl in any season. I’m your host, Meredith Brock, and I am here with my cohost, Kaley Olson.

Kaley:
Well, hey Meredith and hey guys. Today on the podcast we’re going to talk about a topic that might be really hard for some of you. I know it is for me after what we’ve all been through this last year and we want to be sensitive about it. It’s a topic we avoid because sometimes it’s just too hard to talk about and that topic is death. But today you’re going to hear both a teaching and a conversation with our President, Lysa TerKeurst, and our Director of Theological Research, Joel Muddamalle that addresses what does the Bible say about death and dying. And Mer, what I love about what we get to do here at Proverbs 31 is that we don’t shy away from hard topics, but we approach them with grace and open hands and always through the lens of biblical truth and that’s exactly what listeners are going to hear today on this teaching.

Meredith:
Absolutely. And I think probably for many of you, you might be even cringing just a little bit at the thought of this topic because it’s really, really hard but we hope wherever you are today that this episode brings you hope and that you don’t walk away from it discouraged. We pray it equips you to study your Bible with greater confidence to make hard conversation with loved ones a little less hard, maybe. And that it deepens your faith. I know it certainly did deepen my faith more before and before we let you listen we want to let you know that there is a free downloadable resource. We’ll link to in the show notes for this episode at proverbs31.org/listen. It’s called Consider This: A Scriptural Guide to Confront Your Fear of Death. And my goodness, I think maybe all of us have wrestled with that at some point or another and we hope that this podcast and this free resource will help you. It’s an interactive resource packed with information and scripture you can read and digest on your own with a space to journal about what you’re learning and maybe you’re going to want to check it out after you listen cause I sure hope you do.

Kaley:
Yeah absolutely. Check it out after you listen and then also share it with a friend. This is a great resource that can kind of be a bridge for maybe when you don’t have words you can give someone this to work through on their own. Well alright friends here is our conversation with Lysa and Joel.

Lysa:
Thank you, Kaley. So first of all, I want to say: When you talk about topics like death, dying, heaven and hell, this is not something that I approach lightly. I understand that some of the deepest pain that people have ever gone through is because they’ve lost someone that they love very, very much. And so, when you talk about death and dying, you talk about eternity. It can stir up very painful, maybe unresolved grief. And so, I want to acknowledge that. I know what that feels like. I lost a baby sister and it still, when the anniversaries come around of us losing her, when her birthday comes around, there are certain trigger points during the year where I just, even though it was many years ago, it’s still so painful and I still have questions, you know? What would she have been like today?

Lysa:
What would her life have been like? How different would our family have been if we didn’t lose her? And then in some of my more honest moments, I just think sometimes when I hear of another terrorist attack, I’ll think, “Wow, God, why in the world did we have to lose Haley?” And yet there are people out in the world that are doing evil things and she was so innocent and so pure and so beautiful. And so, there’s still those questions that I find myself bumping into. And so, I say all of that because instead of us giving our opinion about some of the questions that we all have around death and dying, I thought it would be great to go straight into Scripture. And
Joel, I know you have a very personal and recent example of why this topic is something that we want to handle very tenderly.

Joel:
Yeah, I was actually in the midst, like smack in the middle of studying death and dying and heaven and hell and in the text and in Scripture and in the topics and just a few days before Thanksgiving, I got a text message from my mom that my cousin Ruthie was found dead in her car in a parking lot on her college campus at UIC. And I remember thinking, “This isn’t real; this can’t be happening.” I kind of thought it was a joke, maybe, initially. And it was interesting because this thing actually we ended up finding out that she was actually murdered and so horrific and tragic. She was just 19 years old, had the rest of her life in front of her. The sweetest girl. She was a homebody, loved her mama so much. She had two older sisters and a brother. And I remember just thinking, “This is something that you see on news” and it got on CNN and made national headlines.

Joel:
And like this was always somebody else having to deal with this and now this was our family dealing with the reality of this. And one of the things that I remember going through is the various questions that, when I first started studying this topic, I didn’t have. And now, all of a sudden, I’m faced with it and I’m looking at the reality of death and dying, and what does that mean? And then also simultaneously just feeling a sense of encouragement that there are certain things in Scripture I remember feeling, like all the time, I just wish God would just deal with this one thing. And I’m just so grateful that God actually so graciously deals with the topic of death and dying in actually a decently clear way that we can begin to grasp. And so this is a hard topic personally.

Lysa:
It is a hard topic and not only is there a lot of grief when we talk about a topic like this, but there’s also a lot of fear. And so today, we cannot possibly on this one podcast get to all that we’ve been studying on death, dying, heaven and hell. But stay tuned for more information if you will. But today, I think this is going to be a really good introduction to give you some verses to really help you navigate this topic, whether you’re navigating in conversation with other people, or whether you’re wrestling through some hard memories, or whether you’re wrestling through some fears that you have. So let’s jump right into God’s Word and let’s see what we’re going to find here. The verse I want to start off with today, it’s a really good foundational verse and we find it in Hebrews chapter 2 starting in verse 14 it says this, “since the children have flesh and blood.” So who are the children?

Lysa:
We’re talking about you and I” “Since the children of God have flesh and blood, he too …” Well, who is the “he” here? It’s Jesus. So I just want to get our proper orientation as we jump into this verse. “Since the children have flesh and blood, he too, Jesus, shared in their humanity so that by his death he might break the power of him who holds the power of death. That is the devil and free those who all their lives were held in slavery by their fear of death.”

Lysa:
So that’s Hebrews chapter 2 verses 14 and 15 and the verse is pretty self-explanatory when you understand who He is — that’s Jesus breaking the power of him who holds death and almost can hold us in slavery because of our fear of death, that is the devil. So Jesus came not just to die on a cross to save us from our sins and to provide redemption. But part of that process was to break the power of death that has held so many of us in slavery and to free us from the enemy. And so
Joel, I know when we were teaching this together, you had some really interesting perspectives about what exactly does this mean, and what exactly happened?

Joel:
Yeah. One of the things that I think that we often question, I know I do all the time, is right around Easter, we’ve got the reality of Jesus’s death and then we jump to the resurrection, right? Like and Jesus conquers sin and death and He raises victoriously. But then we kind of wonder, well what happened in those three days? Like where does Jesus go? And then we have this really unique conversation that Jesus has with the thief who’s at his side and he says, today you will be with me in paradise. And one of the things that we need to kind of try to wrap our minds around is death, the way that the Hebrews, the Israelites, would have thought of what is death and what’s actually taking place. And in the Old Testament, one of the words that’s used to describe death is the Hebrew word that’s translated as Sheol, and it’s really — the way they would think about it is the underworld. That there’s this place that begins to separate you from the presence of God and it’s a holding place.

Joel:
And there are certain people who lived in the Old Testament by faith that were not in the depths of Hades, the depths of hell, but they were in Sheol, they were in this holding place. And when Jesus dies, what he actually does is he goes into the underworld and He literally, through death, disarms the power of death and then He breaks the gates of death. And He rescues those in the Old Testament that we think of — the men of faith and the hall of faith that Hebrews talks about: Abraham and Noah and Isaac — all these people that lived by faith, He rescues them from that place and brings them with Him to live in eternity. And this is stark contrast of the Old Testament and the reality of death for those that lived in the Old Testament to the New Testament and the reality that you and I live in light of what Jesus has done on the cross.

Lysa:
So for me, when I hear all of that, I think, “Whoa, this is sounding a little mysterious, maybe even full of super powers and the underworld and all of this.”

Meredith:
I mean, I’m feeling like some serious Greek mythology, Zeus vibes, right now.

Kaley:
Yeah. Like my mind went to Hercules.

Meredith:
Yeah, like Zeus has departed and he’s down breaking gates. Right. Thank you for bringing this up because I’ve always wondered what happened.

Lysa:
So, let’s jump into a couple more verses and I think it’ll start to become apparent that, you know, we’re not going to be able to unpack all of those answers today, but keep this — Hebrews chapter 2, the purpose, verses 14 and 15 — keep this in mind, that not only has Jesus provided a savior who, when we proclaim Jesus Christ as our personal Lord and Savior, we are told that we will be reunited with God. Like we now have an opportunity to enter into eternity.

Lysa:
But there’s some other verses that talk about this promise, but one of the things that this Hebrews verse reveals is that we can have the peace of this eternal promise now because we’re held in slavery now while we’re still in our earthly body —

Kaley:
When we haven’t been born again.

Lysa:
— Right.

Kaley:
When we haven’t become a believer of Jesus Christ.

Lysa:
Right, and the mystery of all of this is a tension to manage, not a problem to solve. Right? So yes, there is some mystery around this, but I think when we give you a couple more verses, you’re going to start to find a little more peace.

Kaley:
Yeah.

Lysa:
And feel a little more settled and probably even hopeful in the midst of this topic.

Joel:
So really quick, I know Meredith said, I know this happens all the time.

[Crosstalk].

Meredith:
The Zeus, the Zeus thing.

Joel:
You brought up the Zeus thing —

Meredith:
I can’t help myself.

Joel:
— and I’ve got it on my mind —

Meredith:
I knew this was going to happen.

Joel:
— that all of these podcast listeners that are like, “Hold up, wait a minute.’ So you’re like, “Joel, just spit it out. All that kind of stuff and I didn’t hear one scripture reference.” So let me just give us a quick orientation.

Lysa:
I knew this was coming.

Meredith:
I love it. I love it.

Joel:
Just quickly.

Meredith:
Let’s do it.

Joel:
Right. Okay. So in the Old Testament, I said Sheol, Sheol is the place the dead go. And we look at passages like Genesis 37:35 that refers to Jacob. In Samuel, 1 Samuel 28:13-14, and then there’s this idea that there’s actually the wicked that go to Sheol, right.

Lysa:
Okay, can I pause for a second?

Joel:
Yes.

Lysa:
Our listeners don’t know what you’re looking at right now. So what are you reading off of?

Joel:
Okay, so right now I actually did an Instagram story on my Instagram and you can actually go, it’s in the IG Theology highlights.

Lysa:
Okay, awesome.

Joel:
My Instagram is @muddamalle, M-U-D-D-A-M-A-L-L-E, and you will find this entire thing.

Lysa:
That’s awesome. That’s wonderful.

Joel:
Just in case.

Lysa:
That’s a great resource for them to go because this is a lot to take in, y’all. Like this is a lot to try to digest in a short period of time.

Joel:
So Psalm 31:17 identifies that there’s actually a place that is separate from where the righteous are. And this is where the wicked are. And so now we have these two locations where the righteous are and the wicked are, and we can call the one the depths of Hades, which is where the wicked are. And the other is called Sheol. Right? And so this is where you do kind of think of Greek mythology, but I think what’s actually happening is the Greek mythology isn’t actually unique and brand new.

Meredith:
It’s actually not an original idea.

Joel:
They’re building, they’re drawing from biblical theology.

Kaley:
Absolutely.

Joel:
And so it all goes back to the Bible. Now a couple of quick references: You can check out Luke 16:19 through 20:31, where it talks about the wicked and where they suffer and Abraham’s bosom in Luke 16:22 and it seems to be that there’s a place of rest for the righteous as they awaited the Messiah. And this is what actually happens, that this great chasm or the divide between the two places that Luke 16:26 identifies is this place where Jesus actually comes. He rescues them and He brings them to be with Him. And that’s the hope that you and I have.

Kaley:
What a beautiful thing.

Lysa:
Yes, and simultaneously, those still living, so us right now today — we can be free of our fear of death because of the accomplished work of what Jesus has done. Death does not have a hold over us anymore, and so we have been, I think sometimes even as Christians, living in the midst of a fear that if we only had this Truth, then the reassurance that goes with the Truth could help us at least settle with the hope because of what Jesus has already done.

Lysa:
So let me give you a couple other verses and I think this a really help — Here’s another set of verses that I think are really powerful. Let’s do John 11, verses 25 through 26: For Christians, death is not a final reality. It is a trade for better lives. So I’m going to have Joel read the verses, but I’m just giving you a teaching point. So for those of you taking notes, I know you’ve written a lot already, but I think this is one of the major reasons why we do not have to fear death and that’s this. For Christians, death is not a final reality. It is a trade for better life. So Joel, if you’ll read John Chapter 11 verses 25 and 26.

Joel:
“So Jesus said to her, I am the resurrection and the life. Whoever believes in me though he die, yet shall he live and everyone who lives and believes in me shall never die. Do you believe this?”

Lysa:
Okay. And let’s read one other section of Scripture for this. Philippians Chapter 1 verses 21 and then go through to 23 and 24. So Philippians 1:21 and then verses 23 through 24, and for those of you taking notes before Joel reads the Scripture, I want you to imagine that the minute that you depart from being alive on earth is the minute that you are now making that better trade. For those of us who know Jesus as our Lord and Savior, then it’s instant. It’s like absent from the body, present with the Lord. So there isn’t for us, this nebulous middle period. It’s a very instant thing. Okay, Joel, Philippians Chapter 1 verse 21 and then 23 and 24.

Joel:
I have to give a little bit of context. This is the Apostle Paul who’s writing and it’s very likely that he has dealt with imprisonment. He has dealt with this fierce persecution. He’s been beaten, he’s been really tore up. And this is what he says in light of all of that.

Lysa:
I love that a theologian just said, “tore up.” Go right ahead.

Joel:
Yeah. Verse 21 “for to me to live is Christ and to die is gain. If I’m to live in the flesh, that means fruitful labor for me, yet which I shall choose I cannot tell. I’m hard pressed between the two. My desire is to depart and be with Christ for that is far better. But to remain in the flesh is more necessary on your account.”

Lysa:
So I think this is very interesting too, because it’s kind of this tension. Well, if it’s a better trade to go and be with the Lord, if being with the Lord is gain, then why don’t we just depart and go be with the Lord right now? But the Lord has a plan and he had an assignment for Paul. And so imagine if the Apostle Paul decided it was his decision of when the better would be for him to go. We would have missed out on so many of the beautiful and necessary letters. So God had a purpose and a plan. Paul said, it’s better for me, like I want to go. It is a wonderful trade up to go to eternity and be with the Lord, but I recognize it’s not my decision when because the Lord has worked for me to do now.

Lysa:
And so I think that that’s a very important distinctive. All right, let’s look at another principle that we find in Scripture. When it is our time to go and be with the Lord, we will prefer to be with the Lord. So Joel, I’m going to have you read 2 Corinthians Chapter 5 verses 6-8. So 2 Corinthians Chapter 5 verses 6-8. And I don’t know if you’ve ever had this thought, but it’s funny, I was sitting around talking to some of my staff that are in their twenties and even some of my grown kids that are in their twenties and I made this point: When you go to heaven, you will want to be there.

Lysa:
And some of them honestly admitted to me, “I’m not so sure about that, because when the praise and worship goes a little too long at church, I start to get really antsy, and I think, okay, when is it going to be over?” And then she said she had a family member that said, “You better get used to this because this is what it’s going to be like in eternity.”

Kaley:
I know when they be singing that chorus over and over.

Joel:
On repeat.

Kaley:
It’s like whew boy.

Lysa:
But, and we’ll get into this more later in our teaching. Of course, today, we’re just trying to keep it very focused on the comfort and the hope in the midst of what is fearful and full of grief for us is this topic of death and dying. But Joel, read this 2 Corinthians Chapter 5, 6-8, and let’s find this truth that when we’re there, we’re going to want to be there with the Lord.

Joel:
“So we’re always of good courage. We know that while we are at home in the body, we’re away from the Lord for we walk by faith, not by sight. Yes, we are of good courage and we would rather be away from the body and at home with the Lord.”

Lysa:
So when we are with the Lord in eternity, we will want to be there. We would say, “I would rather be here.” Okay? But that can be a very, very hard topic to even navigate because we all know that ... How many times have we had someone pass away and we kind of say, “but they passed before their time,” or “they were too young,” or “this was so unexpected.” And anytime, those of us that are here, we’re going to walk through extreme grief. But those that are in eternity, they are fine. They prefer to be there. It’s not that they don’t want to be with us, but they’re eager for us to get to them, not for them to get back to us. Does that make sense?

Kaley:
Yes.

Lysa:
Okay. But what about those really hard situations where we feel like someone was too young? It was too soon. It was too unexpected and we really asked those hard questions. So Joel’s cousin — doesn’t it sort of feel like someone who’s 19 — it’s like, how can that possibly be their time? My sister was less than two years old and she was given some medication that wound up, it set off a chain of events in her life that it seemed like was this a mistake? Was it a medical error? Did the doctors do something wrong? You know? And so I think this verse will be really helpful. It’s Isaiah 57:1-2 and what we’re going to find out in this verse is that when it seems like the godly died before their time, that it’s really, we should look at it as a protection, that God protected them from evil that He saw was to come.

Lysa:
So these verses I think in Isaiah are very comforting. So Isaiah 57:1-2.

Joel:
“The righteous man perishes and no one lays it to heart. Devout men are taken away while no one understands for the righteous man is taken away from calamity and he enters into peace. They rest in their beds who walk in their uprightness.”

Lysa:
Okay, Joel now I want you to read it in NIV, if you will. So Isaiah 57 one through two in NIV, and I want you to take, I’m assuming that’s ESV you just read from, right?

Joel:
Yup.

Lysa:
Joel and I have this thing, you know?

Kaley:
Yes.

Lysa:
But I think every now and then, and this is why I think it’s really helpful when you’re studying the Bible, go ahead and pull out different versions —

Kaley:
Oh my goodness, yeah.

Lysa:
— of the Bible, and ESV, NASV, NIV, and look at even the King James and really look at how the different verses present themselves because I think, in this case, we’re going to find even more of a connection with the verses in NIV.

Joel:
“The righteous perish and no one takes it to heart. The devout are taken away and no one understands that the righteous are taken away to be spared from evil. Those who walk uprightly enter into peace. They find rest as they lie in death.”

Lysa:
So again, we may not understand what they’re being spared from. We may not understand. It may not make any sense at all, but that’s why we don’t have to try to wrestle through these without the hope that God puts in His Word. And so I think this verse is very, very clear. Like God knows something we don’t know. He sees something we don’t see. And so we have to trust that this wasn’t a taking; this was a sparing. And I think there’s a lot of comfort for that in us that the world is not catching God by surprise or catching God off guard.

Lysa:
God has a plan and it is good and we may not, and we probably will not understand what this sparing was or what this protection was until we get into eternity.

Kaley:
Wow.

Lysa:
Yeah.

Kaley:
That’s really good.

Lysa:
Let’s just go through a couple more verses and then we’ll wrap up today. Speaking of our appointed time, God knows our appointed time and death does not surprise God.
Joel, if you’ll read Psalm 139 verse 16 — and what I will often say to myself, because I have to preach a lot of these verses to myself, especially when my kids were getting their driver’s licenses. And I remember one day, my oldest son, he got his driver’s license and he said, “Mom, I want to take my brothers and sisters to go get ice cream.” I said, “Great, let’s go.” And he said, “No, we want to go by ourselves.”

Lysa:
And I watched the entire content of my heart. All five of my children get into one vehicle. And I remember standing at the window of my house wrestling. I know the state said that he passed the driver’s test. I know the ice cream store is just down the street, but I have watched one too many news stories where I know the reality of what can happen with car accidents and mistakes. And there was just so much wrestling inside of me until I thought of this verse. I thought of, “Okay, if today it’s God’s appointed time for any one of my children to be taken, or all of my children to be taken, if they stayed at home or if they get in the car, it’s God’s time.” And again, this is something I say was so much sensitivity because it probably will not make sense to us.

Lysa:
And it does seem like there’s accidents and things — surely catch God off guard. But I find great comfort when I read Psalm 139 verse 16.
Joel, go ahead and read that.

Joel:
“Your eyes saw my unformed substance; in your book were written, every one of them, the days that were formed for me, when as yet there was none of them.”

Lysa:
So God knows our appointed time. He knows all of the days of our life and all of them are written and recorded. So we can add to the quality of our life. But we don’t add to the quantity, the number of days of our life. So is it important that we make smart decisions? I mean, sometimes we read verses like this and it kind of feels like, “Well shoot, then there’s [crosstalk] … let’s just do what we want to do.”

Meredith:
YOLO, right? It’s not a thing anymore, but okay.

Lysa:
But the Lord gives us these instructions so that we do lead a life that is well spent.

Meredith:
Yes.

Lysa:
And that we follow His instruction today and be obedient to exactly how God says that we will live our life. Because every day counts, every hour counts, every minute counts. And I don’t think we’ll understand the full impact of why our life matters and why the decisions that we make to honor God here, why it matters so much until we get to eternity. But one thing I know, any decision we make here on earth that honors God, we will never regret in eternity.

Meredith:
That’s right.

Joel:
Right.

Kaley:
That’s great.

Lysa:
And so let’s wrap up with one last comparison if you will. These verses that I want
Joel to read: 2 Timothy Chapter 4 verses 7 through 8, and James Chapter 1 verse 12. So 2 Timothy 4:7-8 and I want you to listen to something in this comparison. Listen to how life on earth is described and then listen to how eternity is described. So Joel, go ahead and read 2 Timothy Chapter 4 verses 7 through 8 and sometimes you want to add verses. So, if you do, that’s fine too.

Joel:
Yep. “I have fought the good fight. I have finished the race. I have kept the faith. Henceforth, there is laid up for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord the righteous judge will award for me on that day. And not only to me, but also to all who have loved his appearing.” A quick commentary on that: the race that He’s talking about is not a sprint. He’s got the Greco, ancient Greco Roman Olympics in his mind. And it is a race of endurance. And so you’ve got this sense that He is actually living out the very thing that He’s admonishing the church and you and I today to do.

Lysa:
And so if you paid close attention, life on earth is described as a fight, a race, a trial. But eternity is described as the reward. And so to me, sometimes when we think about eternity, we think of it being a finality, but we don’t always refer to that finality in positive terms. Because for those of us here left on earth, we’re grieving that separation of someone passing before us, right? But when we think about them, we can think they really have fought the good fight and run the good race. And their trials are over. And if, I’m sorry, but today, Meredith, if I was running a 5k, let’s just be conservative here.

Lysa:
If I was running a 5k and I expected you to be cheering me on, when I crossed that finish line, I would not want you to say, but “Wait, wait, I want her to run some more.”

Meredith:
Can we do another five?

Lysa:
Yes and I would say “no,” because I’d been given my reward.

Meredith:
Yes. You’ve accomplished the task.

Lysa:
I don’t want to enter the fight anymore. I don’t want to enter the trials anymore. I don’t want to run the race. I’ve run my race and now is my season of reward. And so that to me is so full of hope, you know? So Joel, read one more verse. James 1:12 and if you’re familiar with James Chapter 1 leading up to this, starting in verse 2, it says “consider it pure joy when you face trials of many kinds because you know that the testing of your faith develops perseverance. Perseverance must finish its work so that you can be mature, complete, not lacking anything.” Okay? So that’s all life on earth. The trial and learning to persevere, in trying to persevere through this so that we can gain maturity. So you can sense some of those same words we read in 2 Timothy Chapter 4. It’s like the fight, the race, the trial. But then listen to James Chapter 1 verse 12.

Joel:
“Blessed is the man who remains steadfast under trial for when he has stood the test, he will receive the crown of life, which God has promised to those who love him.”

Lysa:
And so that’s all we want to do for today. I think it’s a lot to take in. There’s so many verses, but I do want to end with a Spurgeon quote. This is a nod to Joel. Theologians love Spurgeon.

Joel:
He’s my favorite.

Meredith:
He’s amazing.

Lysa:
So Spurgeon said this: “Depend on it. Your dying hour will be your best hour you have ever known. Your last moment will be your richest moment, better than the day of your birth will be the day of your death. It shall be the beginning of heaven, the rising of a sun that shall go no more down forever.”

Meredith:
Wow.

Joel:
And Lisa, I love that when we first started, we talked about fear and when we ended, we’re left with this assurance of hope. And that’s one of the things for me personally, as you’ve taught this, as we’ve studied this, that I’m able to process the reality of the tragedy that my family and that I have experienced is that I can know that there is a good and sovereign God who is fully in control. And because of that, my cousin Ruthie ran her race, and she ran it well and faithfully, and she rests in the arms and the presence of God today. And that fills me with hope.

Meredith:
It reminds me of that song, “In Christ Alone,” and the line that says “no guilt in life / no fear in death.” And what I, I don’t want to pretend like we’ve tied a bow on this subject today because we certainly haven’t. We’ve just really barely —

Kaley:
Scratched the surface.

Meredith:
— dipped our toe in the water of the idea of death and dying and heaven and hell, if we dare to say it, and eternity. It’s a big subject and I can imagine —

Lysa:
And there’s more to come.

Meredith:
Right. I can imagine.

Lysa:
So that’s why I say today is just, we’re just laying some groundwork, because at Proverbs 31, you guys know, we want to equip you to know the Truth so that you can process life through the lens of Scripture.

Kaley:
That’s right.

Lysa:
And not through our own opinions or our own fear or even our own grief. We want to process using Truth, because that’s what will set us free.

Meredith:
That’s right. And I hope today that we have whet your appetite for more of what the scriptures say about this subject. And so if it has whet your appetite, and maybe you want to know more, we would absolutely love to hear from you. And so leave a comment, maybe even ask a question. Maybe after listening to this, you have some lingering questions because we’re right now kind of diving in.

Meredith:
Lysa and Joel are spending some time really researching this subject and we would love to hear from you if there’s a particular area that you’d like us to do some research in, and then stay tuned, because we feel like this is a direction we want to share more about what the Word has to say. Thank you for the hard work that, Lysa and Joel, you’ve put into researching this because I don’t ... I know I don’t take it lightly. I’ve been in the room when you guys have been researching and really thinking through these difficult subjects in a way that makes sense for our listeners, so thank you for taking the time to do that. And if you’re listening to this and wondering how to process all of those scriptures, maybe you didn’t have the opportunity to write all of those down. You’re wondering what else does the Bible say about this?

Meredith:
Where are these other scriptures that talk about this? Lysa and Joel have taken some time to develop a resource for you to be able to download today called, “Consider This.” It’s the list of all of the scriptures that they referenced today as well as some of the other ones from their personal study time and we’re just really, really committed to equipping you with the scriptures from the Word of God that you can weave into your conversations with your friend. Maybe just that you need to tuck away in your heart as you wrestle through the hard realities that you might be facing. And so go to proverbs31.org and click “listen” and it’ll take you to the show notes for this episode. You can, right there, download these scriptures and begin to process them.

Kaley:
Absolutely. Well before we go, Meredith, I do want to point our listeners to where they can get in touch with us if they liked this content.

Meredith:
Absolutely.

Kaley:
Because I know that you mentioned that earlier.

Meredith:
I do want to hear from them. So how do they do it?

Kaley:
Yes. I think the best way for them to get in touch with us is just to send us a DM on Instagram.

Meredith:
Absolutely.

Kaley:
@proverbs31ministries. Whenever you send in a DM, you can say, “Hey, I just listened to this podcast and I want more.” And that really helps us know how to —

Meredith:
That’s right, or “I have this question.”

Kaley:
— create more content. Yeah.

Meredith:
So please don’t be shy.

Kaley:
Absolutely.

Lysa:
And if you’re not of the generation that you know with a DM is —

Kaley:
That’s great Lysa.

Lysa:
— Thank you. Any girl in any season.

Joel:
That’s right.

Lysa:
— Just for the mature ladies. Not that y’all are immature, but a DM is a direct message —

Kaley:
On the Instagram.

Lysa:
— On Instagram. So you can just go to our Instagram page @proverbs31ministries. And if you don’t know how to do this, you can Google “how do I send a DM on Instagram?” And it’ll show you. There’s a little arrow. You click it. It’s all good.

Kaley:
Yeah, well that’s all great and don’t be afraid to … you can send us an email that works great. And guys, we have just used all of our time today. Thank you again, Joel and Lysa, for what you’ve shared with us. We pray this episode helps you know the Truth of God’s Word and live that Truth out because we know when you do, it changes everything. See you next time.