The Proverbs 31 Ministries Podcast

Meredith Brock: Hi, friends, thanks for tuning in to The Proverbs 31 Ministries Podcast, where we share biblical Truth for any girl in any season. I'm your host, Meredith Brock, and I am here today with my co-host, Shae Hill. Happy December, Shae.

Shae Hill: Thanks, Mere. I can't believe we're here at the end of the year. I'm so happy to be with you in the studio today. OK, guys, if you've missed any of these episodes previously, I want to catch you up. Dr. Joel Muddamalle, who is our Director of Theological Research here at P31, and I have been having these conversations called “Ask a Theologian.” What happens is, I bring one main question to Joel, and he helps us unpack it with theological wisdom and understanding. It has been so much fun getting to have these conversations as we try to better intersect God's Word into our everyday human experiences. Mere, can I tell you and our listeners a little sneak peek about what we're going to get into today?

Meredith Brock: Absolutely, Shae.

Shae Hill: OK, so as 2024 is coming to a close, I really wanted to spend some time on the podcast today talking to the listener, and honestly a little bit of my own heart, who may be sunsetting this year feeling just a little disconnected or distant from God. Maybe someone has had an unforeseen tragedy happen in their family this year or they took a new job that's really time-consuming, or maybe you've been a believer for a long time and you just feel like you're in a spiritually dry season. No matter how you put your own language to it, this episode is for you. We'll cover questions like: What are dry seasons? What is the purpose of them, and how does God address this in the Bible?

Meredith Brock: Such a needed conversation. I know as a 43-year-old woman, looking back on my own spiritual walk, dry seasons are confusing, and oftentimes you don't know what the Bible clearly says about it. Does it mean you've done something wrong? Does it mean you should be doing something different? And so I'm really excited about this conversation. It's also a great conversation that can be shared with a friend that you know who may be struggling with their faith. So be sure to send this link to anyone the Lord puts on your heart. All right, friends, let's dive in into today's episode.

Shae Hill: Welcome back to The Proverbs 31 Ministries Podcast. My name is Shae Hill, and I'm here with my friend Dr. Joel Muddamalle. And, Joel, we've been having these conversations on the podcast and on YouTube throughout this year, and this is our last one of 2024.

Joel Muddamalle: I know. I mean the year just went by so fast ... it feels like.

Shae Hill: The year has flown by.

Joel Muddamalle: But it's also been a little slow.

Shae Hill: It's also been a little slow.

Joel Muddamalle: I'm not sure how that works.

Shae Hill: There in the summer, I feel like we got a little stuck. It's felt like things were moving a little slow. Sometimes how ... January is sometimes where people will say it's been January [inaudible]. That's kind of how it felt, but somehow we're here at the end of the year, which it always flies by, and we're recording our last episode, and so I thought it would be fun to kick off our conversation today by sharing a few personal highlights of 2024 and just recapping the year since we've been present on the podcast and hanging out with our listeners. So why don't you tell us a little bit about your year?

Joel Muddamalle: Yeah, I think a big part of my year was on March 5, my very first book ever launched and released into the world, The Hidden Piece, and so it's just been so incredibly fun. Took the summer, got to share about the message kind of around different churches and conferences, and probably the best part has just been talking to some folks and hearing them react and respond to the vision that Jesus gives us of humility and how it really is the path to the peace that we long for, and so that's been a huge part of the year for me. And then the second one is on a family front. My two oldest boys, they tried out for the football team in seventh and sixth grade; they cut 40 kids per grade, so it was a little bit terrifying, like gosh!

Shae Hill: Yeah, as a parent, I'm sure it's a little bit of a panic moment.

Joel Muddamalle: Yeah, and they post rosters. I remember it was like they were going to post rosters. I'm like Tuesday night by 11 p.m., and my wife and I were up late refreshing the roster list like, "Are the boys going to [make it]?" And then we were like, "Oh no, what if only one makes and the other one doesn't?" But I'm super proud of my boys, Liam and Levi. They both made their middle school football teams, and they're working really hard.

Shae Hill: Let's go ... that's awesome.

Joel Muddamalle: We are middle school football parents.

Shae Hill: OK, yeah you are. Do you have merch?

Joel Muddamalle: We got merch.

Shae Hill: OK, good.

Joel Muddamalle: We got the merch.

Shae Hill: The family has merch.

Joel Muddamalle: We got the merch. We also have the bleacher-stand seat things with the back.

Shae Hill: Oh, necessary.

Joel Muddamalle: Necessary because we're getting old and bleachers are not made for good posture.

Shae Hill: No.

Joel Muddamalle: So we've got the little attachment. So yeah, we're all in.

Shae Hill: OK, good, I love hearing that.

Joel Muddamalle: How about you, Shae?

Shae Hill: OK, let's think. 2024 was a big year. My husband and I bought our first home.

Joel Muddamalle: Yay, it's beautiful.

Shae Hill: Which was wild ... We were not expecting that to happen, and then it happened really fast. So super excited about that. It's been great just kind of making that place our own. We also went to Italy this summer, which was really fun. Elliot, my husband, was a groomsman in a wedding over there, so we just made a trip out of it.

Joel Muddamalle: So fun.

Shae Hill: And it was so fun. We had the best time; I honestly think about it every day.

Joel Muddamalle: Best food. What was your best food that you ate there?

Shae Hill: OK, well I'm gluten-free, but in Europe, I was able to eat gluten and be totally fine.

Joel Muddamalle: What?

Shae Hill: Yeah, and so honestly “everything” is my answer to that question of what was your favorite? But we kind of started this rhythm where every place we went, unless there was a specialty item, we would order a white pizza, which means it basically has just cheese and maybe some prosciutto or arugula or something, and then a ravioli dish, and we'd share it, and that was so fun and so delicious.

Joel Muddamalle: That's awesome.

Shae Hill: So everything was my favorite, but it's been a great year. It's also been a busy year at Proverbs 31 Ministries. We have had a lot going on.

Joel Muddamalle: Lysa released her book.

Shae Hill: Yes.

Joel Muddamalle: Oh my gosh.

Shae Hill: Lysa's book came out. Wow, I can't believe it.

Joel Muddamalle: And so fun to work on that project.

Shae Hill: Yes, I feel like it has not been chill. There has been a lot going on around here, and so I thought it would just be fun for us to kick off talking about some highlight moments. But honestly, I know if we had time, Joel, both of us would probably have takeaways from this year that we wouldn't consider highlight reel worthy.

Joel Muddamalle: Oh yeah.

Shae Hill: Just difficulties, things that we walked through, things we didn't have on our bingo card for 2024, and in light of this, I just started thinking about our friends who listen to the podcast regularly, or maybe you're tuning in for the first time today, and they may be closing out 2024 just feeling like this year was not their best year with God, and maybe they've even said this year just felt like one long dry season with God. I've been in those seasons. I know what that feels like, and I think as a believer, you can feel really disillusioned by dry seasons because in your head [you know] that God is with you and that His presence is always with you and that His Spirit lives in us, right?

But when your heart or even maybe your body just feels disconnected from Him, you can just kind of be left in this weird gray season that just sometimes you may have called it a dry season or maybe you've said, "I'm just not feeling close to God." I don't know how you've said it, but I just wanted to close out this year talking about this conversation because I know that there's a lot of pressure as we're looking at the next year up ahead to jump into the next Bible reading plan and to make all of your goals and all of that.

And I was just thinking about the person that may just be like, "I'm just closing out this year feeling like I survived, and I'm not even ready to talk about 2025 goals yet. I don't have the white space or the bandwidth or maybe even the desire to knock out a Bible-in-the-year plan in a dry season, and I'm really just wanting to get back to communicating with God daily or feeling His presence." And so I really want to spend our time today talking to that person. And so I know that you and I talked and prepared for this conversation, too, so why don't you jump in with where we can start talking about this topic.

Joel Muddamalle: Yeah, I think that phrase “dry season” is such a loaded phrase.

Shae Hill: It is.

Joel Muddamalle: I think when you say it, I think different people are going to have specific situations. They may even have specific people that pop into their mind. They might have seasons of life that are passed, and there might be fear of, "Oh my gosh, I'm coming off of such an amazing year." And then it's like, "Is next year going to be the dry-season year?" We're all just waiting in a little bit of dread maybe of that dry season.

Shae Hill: Yes, I think that's a good word to use “dread” or even just maybe lethargic? I don't know; I know that there have been times when I've been sitting across from a friend at coffee, and she's telling me something that she read in her quiet time or a revelation that she had when she was reading her Bible study or a takeaway from her community group or this amazing moment she had during prayer, even a worship song, and I'm just like, if I'm not in that season right now, I'm kind of bummed out on myself where I'm like, "Shoot, am I doing something wrong?"

Joel Muddamalle: Yeah, and I think what ... honestly, Shae, that's so good, and I think what that actually draws out is this question of expectation, this question of anticipation. We have created a kind of framework of a world that we believe is so ideal, and if we're not living the ideal of the world that we have created within our mind, then typically it's like, "Oh, we're in a dry season." The Bible uses very specific terms and languages. We say dry seasons. Well, what is a dry season? A dry season literally is a season that is without rain. There's no rain.

Well why is rain so important? Well, we know this from a geographical, just like a botanist, kind of standpoint. Rain is so important because it's what gives life to plants. It's what causes flourishing, and so if you're in a dry season and there seems to be this lack of rain, then the words and phrases that the Bible uses for these types of seasons are seasons of wilderness, seasons of wilderness wandering, seasons of exile potentially. And each of these words and each of these phrases is loaded with biblical, theological implication. And so what I would want to invite us into is a gentle nudge to say, "OK, here's what my ideal of my world is."

And just for a moment, not forever, Shae, right? Just for a moment, put that to the side, and maybe let's take a word and a phrase like dry seasons, and let's try to imagine it in the way that the Scriptures help to frame it for us, and here's what I found about dry seasons. Dry seasons are everywhere in the Bible. You think about the Israelites wandering in the wilderness. You think about the exilic period of the Israelites after the kingdom has fallen. You think about the 400 years of silence between the end of the Old Testament into the writing of the New Testament. You think about Jesus. I mean He has this one story from when He's 12, and then all of a sudden, we don't hear anything until He's in His 30s. Think about Paul; talk about a dry season, right? He is literally the cause of the death of the first Christian martyr, Stephen.

He meets Jesus on the road to Damascus, and then all of a sudden, the book of Galatians, the letter that he writes to the church in Galatia tells us that right at the outset, he spends over two and a half years, almost three years, and he just leaves so that he can spend time with God's Word. These are dry seasons, and yet in each of these seasons, these seasons are not wasted. They're not meaningless. These seasons are seasons of sanctification. That's a big Bible theology word and just simply means the process of becoming more like Jesus, and so the idea is like Jesus is our aim; He's our ambition, and how is it that we learn to become more like Him?

And so dry seasons are seasons of waiting. They're seasons of patience, but I would also want to suggest that what we do in the patience, what we do while we're waiting, is of utmost importance. So we could be waiting, and in the midst of our waiting, we could be angry. We could zone out. We could just sit back and be passive and just wait for the next thing to happen, or we can put on a posture of intentionality where we're like, "OK, I don't feel like reading my Bible. I don't feel like praying. I don't feel like being a part of a local church and being a part of community. But just because I feel something doesn't mean I have to do that thing that I feel.”

Shae Hill: I think that's so good, and I want to pause really quick because you're already encouraging me so much, and I feel confident that you're also encouraging the person who's listening right now. Because as you even just laid out in Scripture where we see dry seasons in wilderness, I feel like that brings so much freedom to the person that feels like they're the first person ever or the first Christian ever to have experience in off season with God. And so thank you for just reminding us that there's not just examples of other people who are going through this right now, and I would even say it's normal for it to happen, but I think we have evidence and Scripture that it's not new, and so there's nothing new under the sun.

And so I think that also brings a lot of freedom to people that are in this place of this dry season, and so I just wanted to point that out because I feel like that really sets the tone for just like, "OK, I can breathe a little bit." And like you're saying, I can choose to be intentional without being just riddled with fear because when I've been in a dry season before, I am just filled with so much fear and my thoughts can kind of spiral, and I do believe it's honestly the enemy at work trying to make me feel like this season is going to be forever. I've done something wrong. God's mad at me that I've even heard these truths taken out of context before of well, God's always with you. So if you're feeling off God, it must have been you that did something, but it's like there's a lot of shame wrapped up in that, and so anyways, I just wanted to say that personally, you're making me feel better already.

Joel Muddamalle: I love that, and I would just want to just clearly state that OK, think about what a dry season is. A dry season we talked about ... a dry season is a time where there is no rain, right? That's what makes it dry. What happens to us when there is no rain? So dry seasons are often seasons of resistance ... that we're experiencing a type of resistance, but it's in that place of resistance that we learn to cultivate and grow and mature in resilience, and we want to be a resilient people.

Shae Hill: Resistance leads to resilience, yeah.

Joel Muddamalle: There's no doubt about it. Shae, there was an interesting story. We were talking about this earlier. I always like to cite my sources. I'm pretty sure this was Chaz.

Shae Hill: This is like a conversational footnote that you just added in there.

Joel Muddamalle: I know, this is a conversational footnote. I'm pretty sure it was Chaz Adams, Lysa's husband. We were sitting in the back after She Speaks, and he read something that was fascinating. And I was trying to research up on it, and he was talking about these group of scientists that decided that they wanted to create the perfect environment for these trees. I think it was trees, and they created this bio-dome for these trees, and they wanted to create the perfect environment for these trees to grow, and they did it. They crushed this experiment, but the thing is the trees kept growing. As they grew, they outgrew the dome, and so then what they had to do was they had to remove the bio-dome, and you would expect they have created the perfect environment for these trees to flourish for them to grow. These things are just going to continue in their beauty and in their growth, and then the wildest thing happened, Shae. They removed the bio-dome, and then I think it's like within some period of time, some winds come, and all the trees collapse.

Shae Hill: Even though conditions were perfect.

Joel Muddamalle: All the conditions were perfect, ideal, optimal, and they went back in recently [asking], "What did we do wrong?" They forgot to include an element of resistance in the bio-dome, and without that element of resistance, the roots never went deep. There was no need ... there was no necessity to grow deep, and in the absence of that need of resistance to grow deep, when resistance did come, they fell over. And I think this is such a powerful biblical example for us, or visual example for us of a biblical principle, which is the seasons of that we experience that are dry, that are wilderness, that are wandering, are seasons where God is actually cultivating something in our hearts to grow deep into His life, into His soil, to grow deep in our trust in Him.

So that if we can experience that type of resilience in the midst of this resistance in this season, it's actually equipping us for future seasons that we don't know what's in front of us, and yet God in His kindness has allowed us to walk through these dry seasons so that we can build up a type of resilience that will be a benefit for us in the future.

Shae Hill:
That's so good. So what I'm hearing you say is not only is there scriptural evidence that dry seasons are in the Bible, so we've already kind of normalized it. Normalized it in a way of not saying that we're OK with it, but just this is not the first instance there is. You're not the first believer out there to experience that, but then I also hear you saying our dry seasons have a purpose, and it's a purpose beyond; it's not a punishment. I think that's really important to say that if you do feel like you're in a dry season or you're feeling disconnected from God or God feels far away, you're not there by punishment.

Could it be that God has actually placed you there to grow deeper, healthier roots for the future? And I think that's such a beautiful example that you talk about with the trees in terms of this conversation. I want to pivot a little bit or really not pivot but to bring kind of another layer to this conversation. So I told you that when I've been in a dry season before, the enemy really gets in my ear with fear, and one of the things that I feel like has kind of gotten convoluted is this the term “lukewarm” in the Bible.

And so I wanted to ask you about that and see if you could help with talking through the distinction I guess between a dry season and what the Bible refers to as lukewarm, because I think I have felt like, or often wondered, Does a dry season over a long period of time turn you into a lukewarm Christian? What does it mean to be a lukewarm Christian? Are Christians even lukewarm? Or if you were to ask or pull people, which I wish I had the time to do this, like, "What verses in the Bible rise up the most fear in you?" Just those ones where it's like, "God sounds a little intense there." For me, it's a lot of times the ones about lukewarm. It's like, "I'll spit you out of my mouth." I'm like, "Well, I don't want that to happen to me. I sure don't want that." And so can you break that down a little bit? What's the distinction between dry seasons and lukewarm?

Joel Muddamalle: Yeah, so again, I want to do a little bit of logical work on it. So it's like OK, if dry seasons are there and dry seasons are seasons of resistance, and in those seasons of resistance, we are intentional. We're learning to trust in God, to trust in the community that's around us, to dive deep into our spiritual formation and disciplines in those seasons, the outcome is resilience. OK, if you have dry seasons and you still have resistance, but you lack intentionality, and now you don't have intentionality, and instead of the place of intentionality, you have a passive existence, you are sitting back and waiting, you're starting to reframe your reality as well as me, of course this would happen. I would then suggest you are actually being intentional about something, but the thing that you're being intentional about is not the resilience that you're trying to build or to develop. So the danger of dry seasons is a temptation to live a lukewarm existence.

Shae Hill: For that to become kind of the new normal operating speed of life. Yep, OK, yeah.

Joel Muddamalle: Absolutely, and so I always want to take us back to the text, and I think there are these phrases, there are these words, there [are] these verses in the Bible that often almost take on a life of their own if that makes any sense, and so it's like, "Oh, we almost use it in everyday language or vocabulary.” I'm blanking on a good example, but oh, here's a good one.

Shae Hill: OK.

Joel Muddamalle: My kids ... I'm going to show my age now. My kids have started to say, whenever on the football field, something also happens, they do something, they're running around, they're like, "I'm him." I'm like, "What does that mean? What do you mean? Who's him?" They're like, "No, dad, it's a phrase. It's a phrase that means I'm the best." And it is a phrase now that has taken on a life of its own, and it's now being used in all kinds of different contexts, not just in the football field. So if my son makes an incredible bowl of ramen ... Levi's super into ramen; he'll make the bowl of ramen, and he'll bring it out to all of his brothers, and he'll be like, "I'm him."

Shae Hill: OK.

Joel Muddamalle: And I'm like, "How did this phrase take on a life of its own?"

Shae Hill: See, I'm also showing my age, because I'm like this is the first time I've heard of this phrase.

Joel Muddamalle: I'm telling you, if y'all heard of this phrase, pop into the comments and let us know where you've heard it.

Shae Hill: Yeah, send us a DM, and let us know.

Joel Muddamalle: I promise you these kids are out here saying it.

Shae Hill: OK.

Joel Muddamalle: Well, the phrase “lukewarm” I think has done this. It's taken on a life of its own, and I want us to go back to its original context. All of these biblical words and phrases have a biblical context, and I want us ... my goal as a theologian is to draw us back to what the Bible actually intends and means. I was at an event, and I heard somebody say this, and I think it's so important. There are two things about the Bible: There's what it says, the plain saying of the Bible, and there's what it means. And so we know what the Bible says; it says in Revelation 3:16, "So, because you are lukewarm, and neither hot nor cold, I am going to vomit you out of my mouth" (CSB). We know that's what it says, but the question that I want to ask is, "Well, what does it actually mean?"

Shae Hill: Yeah, that's a good question.

Joel Muddamalle: And so in the ancient world, it's actually a reference to an aqueduct system, and this is actually in Revelation. John is in Patmos; he's exiled. He's caught up in this incredible vision, and this is one of the letters that he writes to one of the churches, and it's to the church in Laodicea, and so there's a geographical, cultural and social context that's all around this. There's ... aqueduct system that was around this region actually delivered hot water to hot baths, but by the time the water got to Laodicea, it became lukewarm, and so it wasn’t useful for the hot bath. Now, Laodicea was a strategically poor location. So you have strategically good locations: Rome, Athens, right, Ephesus. Laodicea was not one of those locations. It was strategically poor, especially when it came to water distribution. So the hot waters of a place called the Hierapolis were believed to have healing attributes.

So it's ... think about the sauna or hot tub, like your muscles ache, and it's like oh, you go into the hot tub; that's great. It's going to ease the pain of your body. Well, the ancient Greeks understood this, and so their thought is instead of just the hot baths being located in this hot springs area, what if we could build an aqueduct system, bring the hot water, keep it hot, and bring it down so that the majority of the people could access it? And so that was the goal, and then in a different location in Colossae, there were cold water springs, and these cold water springs were perfect for being pure and for drinking water, OK.

Shae Hill: It's giving cold plunge.

Joel Muddamalle: It's giving cold-plunge vibes.

Shae Hill: OK, ancient world cold plunge.

Joel Muddamalle: OK, Levi and Jennie Lusko, we love you. Thank you for introducing me to the cold plunge, but here's the interesting thing. The context of this is pointing to the very good usefulness of hot water, and this is the thing that might kind of shake and shatter you a little bit: not shatter you, shake you! The cold water was good and useful for a purpose. Lukewarm water was basically not good for anything. So in modern vernacular, it's like hot is awesome, cold has its value, but a lukewarm tub is kind of just gross.

Another fascinating thing about Laodicea: Because of this lukewarm water, people would drink that water, and it was known to cause nausea from drinking that water. So now in context of why does it say that I'm going to vomit you out of my mouth, if you are in Laodicea, you're like, "Oh, this stuff happens all the time. Every time we drink lukewarm water, it makes us nauseous, and then we throw up." Right? It's making this connection back to us, and so I think the principle here is, in these dry seasons, we're trying to really cultivate a type of existence that is pointing toward our love and affection for Jesus. We're not passive. We're not sitting back, and historically I think this passage was taught, "Be hot for Jesus. Don't be cold."

Shae Hill: Exactly, be sold out.

Joel Muddamalle: Right, and the historical context and the social and the language of it actually doesn't point to that. It's like if you're going to be hot, be hot, and if you're going to be cold, be cold. Don't be tempted into a lukewarm existence because in that lukewarm existence, you'll miss out the usefulness that God has for you and for His people. And so I think dry seasons are incredibly important for us within this specific passage because dry seasons are places for us to cultivate the skills of being hot or being cold, but if we're not being intentional in those seasons, we'll end up living a lukewarm existence, which is actually a kind of a place where there is a lack of meaning, a lack of use.

Shae Hill: When you say lukewarm existence, what does that look like?

Joel Muddamalle: I mean I can only speak for myself, and I think a lukewarm existence is a worldview that just is very passive, and I want to sit back. So it's like I'm in dry season. I feel like I'm not getting much out of God's Word. I feel like God's not speaking very much, and so the lukewarm existence for me is like, "I know I should go to church. I'm just going to skip it this Sunday." Or I know I've got a friend who texts me and he's like, "Hey, let's go out. Let's hang out. Let's spend some time together. Fantasy football season is around the corner, so let's go and watch a couple [of] games."

Shae Hill: Yeah it is.

Joel Muddamalle: But I'm in a lukewarm season; I'm in a dry season.

Shae Hill: So I want to isolate. I don't want to go.

Joel Muddamalle: I want to isolate. I don't want to put in that effort. My friend doesn't really get the situation that I'm in. He doesn't understand me, and so being lukewarm is to start to reject these avenues of community and growth and opportunity because we've bought into a belief system that says really nothing good is going to happen in this season.

Shae Hill: Yeah, like nothing's working right now.

Joel Muddamalle: Yeah.

Shae Hill: Yeah. OK, so having intentionality, if that's lacking intentionality ... having intentionality in a dry season, would you say that looks like choosing to show up even when you don't feel it in these spheres? Reading our Bibles, staying in community, I think even being honest in telling a close friend, "This is where I'm at right now. This is what I'm feeling. Will you pray for me? Do you have any encouragement for me?" I think just even not isolating and holding that within but being honest about that's where you are is I think that's even being intentional.

Joel Muddamalle: Yeah, absolutely.

Shae Hill: Which feels scary to tell another believer, "Am I a bad Christian if I'm in a dry season?" And so I think even that could be an encouragement today. Like if you're listening and you haven't told anyone in your life that you're struggling right now, I think that would be a great next step to try and just [reach out to] one person.

Joel Muddamalle: Yeah, and I think I go back to, Shae, something you told me a while back. I don't know if you're still doing this, but you have that gratitude journal, right?

Shae Hill: Yes.

Joel Muddamalle: Tell us about what you mean.

Shae Hill: This is from Jess Connolly who I love.

Joel Muddamalle: We love you, Jess.

Shae Hill: We love you, Jess Connolly. She's also a cold plunger.

Joel Muddamalle: I know.

Shae Hill: But she talks about how she starts her quiet time every day with five things that she's grateful for, and that's her gratitude rhythm, and she feels really strongly that we need daily, weekly, monthly, annually to be grateful and have a distinct way that we're expressing gratitude and looking for ways to be grateful, and sometimes it's simple. I love the pen I'm using right now, the coffee that I just brewed, the fact that I have no plans this weekend ... that kind of stuff. It's nothing like that big, but I do think that daily gratitude practice is really helpful. And actually our friend Maddie Greenfield and I were talking about this conversation, and she had a great tip, and it just came to mind that I thought I would share. She was like, "I feel like dry seasons may not be the time that you jump into deep theological study, but maybe you choose to read a book of the Bible that reads more of a story."

Maybe you just need to change up your pace of how you're spending time with God and what that's looking like because if you've been doing the same thing for a long time and you feel like you're getting nothing out of it, I feel like God would rather you change it up and try something else than just sit there and be miserable, honestly. And so there's even been times where I've just gone on prayer walks, and that's my quiet time rhythm, or I'm reading a book that's more story driven, and so it doesn't have to look like reading through a Bible in a year. Choose something I feel like that's going to connect you to the heart of God, that's the point, right?

Joel Muddamalle: Yeah, 100%. And I also think it's being honest about the way that God has wired you.

Shae Hill: Yeah.

Joel Muddamalle: Different people are wired in different ways.

Shae Hill: Totally.

Joel Muddamalle: So for certain people, you're in a dry season; it's actually going to help you to go through and identify all the psalms that deal with lament and sorrow because a gift that's in there that works for you; for other people, AKA me, that's not going to work.

Shae Hill: Yeah.

Joel Muddamalle: That's going to put me deeper into —

Shae Hill: My sorrow.

Joel Muddamalle: Right, exactly. So what I need is an encouragement, and so I'm going to be intentional about what I read in that season, and so I think there's a bit of freedom here. Often, one of the things you've heard me say before, Shae, is that the Bible is filled often much more with principles than it is policy. And so there's freedom that God has created into the very framework of how we even study Scripture and seasons of life so that we can be led into places of fruitfulness. And we get through the wilderness, we get through the dry season, and we also have just an honest awareness that we might get through it here, and things are great, and there might be another one that's on the way. But in the same way as with your gratitude journal, I think you're stacking gratitude, right? It's these small things, and if you can start to stack the small things, your eyes and your heart and your mind is being trained to see the big things when they come up.

And in the same way, I think there's this sense of your stacking, each of your dry seasons is stacking so that when something does come along, we pray that it doesn't, but if it does, that is something very significant in each of your smaller stacking dry seasons, you've built the resilience to once again faithfully walk through it with Jesus, the power of the Holy Spirit, and the family of God that's around you.

Shae Hill: So good. Joel, is there anything that we didn't say or cover that you want to share before we close out today?

Joel Muddamalle: No, I think it was great. I think just the last thing I would just say is, if you're in a dry season right now, don't neglect the power of prayer in your dry season, and don't neglect the power of prayer of your friends in that season. I think you mentioned it. If you just got that close friend that's always there for you, just let them know. Let them know, "Hey, this is a dry season for me, and I just would appreciate your prayer."

Shae Hill: Yeah, 100%, and if you can pray yourself, don't get bogged down in your head of what prayer has to look like right now. It doesn't have to be formal. Just tell God as plainly as you would tell a friend like, "This is where I'm at right now." Just lay it all out in front of Him.

Joel Muddamalle: It's just the way my prayers typically work when I'm on the StairMaster at the gym.

Shae Hill: Lord, why have You left me here?

Joel Muddamalle: Yeah, I'd literally be like, Lord, I don't want this. This is not what I want.

Shae Hill: Why did You create this horrible machine? I'm just kidding.

Joel Muddamalle: Yes, but I think honesty is so important in that conversation.

Shae Hill: Yeah, I think so too. So, friends, wherever you are today, if you're currently in a dry season or if you come back to this episode when you find yourself in a future dry season, I hope that it's been encouraging to you. My prayer for you is that you stay the course and that you experience the presence of the Lord in a way that you never have before, and so stay close to Jesus. Stay close to people that love Him, and know that Joel and I are here cheering you on. Thanks for listening today.

I love this conversation. I've been walking with Jesus since I was in the second grade, and now I'm almost 30, and there's definitely days or sometimes longer seasons where I feel weary or I just feel disconnected from God, but I'm so thankful for the hope that Joel provided today.

Meredith Brock: Same, Shae, I really think this is going to help a lot of people. I certainly know it helped me. Friends, when you're feeling stuck or stagnant, sometimes you just need to hit that “fresh start” button, right? Which is why I'm so excited to tell you about our brand-new study. It's called Fresh Start: A Study of the Book of Genesis. This will be our very first study together in 2025. So get your study guide through the link in our show notes or by visiting p31bookstore.com.

Shae Hill: I think we covered it all today, Meredith. Thanks for tuning in today, friends; at Proverbs 31 Ministries, we believe when you know the Truth and live the Truth, it changes everything.