The Proverbs 31 Ministries Podcast

Meredith Brock:
Hi friends. Thanks for tuning in to The Proverbs 31 Ministries Podcast where we share biblical Truth for any girl in any season. I'm your host, Meredith Brock, and I am here today with my co-host, Shae Hill.

Shae Hill:
Hey, Meredith, I'm so excited to get to host this podcast with you today and so excited to share about who's coming up on the show and what she's going to talk about. We're going to be joined today by Morgan Krueger, who is the author of a brand-new book, Goodbye Hiding, Hello Freedom: Trading Your Shame for Redemption in Jesus. And she's also a ministry leader. So I'm excited for you guys to hear a really honest conversation about shame. And one of my favorite takeaways I think from our conversation today was just realizing that there really is never a moment in time where we are too far gone — too far from Jesus. There's no place that we can be in our life where He can't bring us back and redeem us. And so I'm excited for you guys to hear this conversation today.

Meredith Brock:
Yeah, it's a great episode. I think it's going to bless a lot of people. But before we let you listen to that episode, I want to personally invite you to wrap up 2024 with Proverbs 31 Ministries in our free First 5 mobile app starting December 1. We're doing a study called Light of the World: 20 Scriptures for When You Can't See Through the Darkness. And I'm really, really excited about this study. Our team has worked hard on this exclusive content, and you won't be able to access the content anywhere else but inside the mobile app called First 5. So go ahead, download it anywhere you can get apps, app stores anywhere, and we'll meet you there starting December 1.

Shae Hill:
All right, friends, let's dive into today's episode. We're excited to welcome our friend Morgan Krueger to the podcast today. Morgan joins us from Franklin, Tennessee, where she and her husband Ryan have two boys. Morgan is an author who found her voice connecting with women seeking freedom from the brokenness of past shame. She's passionate about the redemption found only in following Jesus, and she aims to keep that at the center of all that she does. Morgan works at Faithfully Restored, which is a ministry that offers the hope of Jesus in the midst of suffering. And a little fun fact that I'm excited to share is that Morgan and I actually went to the same college. This is a very full circle moment for me, but we're so excited to have you on the podcast today, Morgan.

Morgan Krueger:
Aw, Shae, thank you for having me, and, Meredith, it's so good to meet you. I know, my husband right before this said, “Tell Shae, hey.” So it really is such a small world and yeah, just so honored to do a little ministry with you guys today.

Meredith Brock:
Well, we are so happy to have you, Morgan. And Morgan's very first book is titled Goodbye Hiding, Hello Freedom: Trading Your Shame for Redemption in Jesus. It released earlier this year, and we're looking forward to hearing the message she's going to share with us today. So, Morgan, why don't you take it away?

Morgan Krueger:
Absolutely. Well, thank you all so much. And as I've been praying about our time together, there were so many different things that kept coming up into my heart of what I could share today. But as of now, what the Lord is really putting on my heart is hopefully a story of encouragement, a story of redemption, a story and a reminder that, for whoever is listening, God is not done writing your story and the world might tell you that you are too far gone or that you're disqualified for the future God has for you because of your past, but the Gospels tell us otherwise. So this morning we are going to be in the Gospel of John, and we're going to start here in John 18. And to tee up a little bit of context, as we all know, Jesus had 12 disciples, and if you know anything about them, they were a little bit of a ragtag crew [who] came from different backgrounds, had different worldviews, but Jesus specifically and intentionally chose these people to be vessels for His glory.

And He does the same for us today. And I don't know about you, but when I think about the ragtag crew, I raise my hand because I am one with them, and I know my shortcomings ... I know my sin struggles. That was a huge part of my story for so long: I walked away from my faith because I believed that after losing my dad at 15 years old, I believed that if he abandoned me, that God must have abandoned me. If he was done with me, that God must be done with me. And because of that, it over time created such a massive buildup of shame. And so the story I'm going to share this morning resonates with my own heart, and I pray that it resonates with anyone else out there that might feel disqualified or might feel that they're too far gone.
So John 18, starting in verse 16, is a story about Peter, and we find this group outside, and Jesus is actually inside before the chief priests on trial. And we see that Peter is having this moment of looking on to Jesus on trial, and he has a moment of deep brokenness. So let's pick up in verse 15. It says, “Simon Peter followed Jesus, and so did another disciple. Since that disciple was known to the high priest, he entered with Jesus into the courtyard of the high priest, but Peter stood outside at the door. So the other disciple, who was known to the high priest, went out and spoke to the servant girl who kept watch at the door, and brought Peter in. The servant girl at the door said to Peter, ‘You also are not one of this man's disciples, are you?’ He said, ‘I am not.’ Now the [servant girl] and officers had made a charcoal fire, because it was cold, and they were standing and warming themselves. Peter also was with them, standing and warming himself. The high priest then questioned Jesus about his disciples and his teaching. Jesus answered him, ‘I have spoken openly to the world. I have always taught in synagogues and in the temple, where all Jews come together. I have said nothing in secret. Why do you ask me? Ask those who have heard me what I said to them; they know what I said.’ When he had said these things, one of the officers standing by struck Jesus with his hand, saying, ‘Is that how you answer the high priest?’ Jesus answered him, ‘If what I said is wrong, bear witness about the wrong; but if what I said is right, why do you strike me?’ Annas then sent him bound to Caiaphas the high priest. Now Simon Peter was standing and warming himself. So they said to him, ‘You also are not one of his disciples, are you?’ He denied it and said, ‘I am not.’ One of the servants of the high priest, a relative of the man whose ear Peter had cut off, asked, ‘Did I not see you in the garden with him?’ Peter again denied it, and at once a rooster crowed” (John 18:15-27, ESV).

We all know this story, but as someone who has wrestled with my own brokenness in my past, I can only imagine in that moment the shame and the regret and the reality that what Jesus had predicted was actually coming true in that moment. And for me, when I think about this moment, I go back to actually my 15-year-old self. When I was 15 years old, my dad was suddenly diagnosed with Stage 4 liver cancer. And at the time, he was given a diagnosis of six months to live. But that quickly turned into about six weeks only. And I remember in that moment as a little girl being so terrified, being so afraid, being so distanced from my father who raised me, who loved me, who called me his because it was so incredibly difficult for this man I loved to slowly fade away before my eyes.

And because of that, I truly kept my distance. I didn't move toward him in love. It was hard for me to be around him. And I remember one day getting a call at school that my mom was coming to pick me up, and she quickly drove me to the hospice center and had told me that my dad was in a coma and he was unlikely to wake up. And so I remember those hours that passed. I just held his hand, and I cried tears, and I cried out to God. I said, God, please let him wake up because I need to tell him how much I love him. I need to tell him that he was a wonderful father, and I need this moment. And unfortunately my dad never woke up, and he passed away that night.

And I remember the weeks and the months following the passing of my dad felt a little bit like this moment with Peter, like I had done something and now I will never get the opportunity to set the record straight of I do love you, Dad. And for Peter, I just imagined him feeling like, Oh, no, I do love the Lord. I do want to follow the Lord. I cannot believe what I have just done. And as we see as recorded in Scripture, Peter and Jesus, prior to Him going to the cross, never got another moment together. And so with that, picking up on my own story, I remember the months following the passing of my dad and feeling incredibly just devastated. I had never been in such a low place, because I thought my dad passed away and he did not know how much I loved him.

And this lie penetrated my heart into such a dark, deep place that I remember feeling like, How can I continue on in my life? How can I live with the reality of what I've done? And so as we think about Peter, he must have felt the exact same way: How can I carry on after all that I've done? And thanks be to God that He does not leave us in that place. What we see all throughout the Gospels is that Jesus time and time and time again, He does what He does best. He moves into the hardest places of our life, and He tells us, Even your darkest moment is not done with Me. When I enter into the story, redemption happens. And when we struggle with shame, it's this temptation to just go back with the enemy, to go back to our past, to go back to our thoughts, to go back to our memories.

And when we go back with him, he just makes us relive the past, rehash the past, revisit the dark moments without any hope. But what Jesus does is He says, Actually go back with Me, and I will redeem it. I will show up in the hardest darkest places. And that is exactly what He does in Peter's story. So if we pick up ... if you have your Bibles, you can flip to John 21, starting in verse 1. It says, “After this Jesus revealed himself again to the disciples by the Sea of Tiberias, and he revealed himself in this way. Simon Peter, Thomas (called the Twin), Nathanael of Cana in Galilee, the sons of Zebedee, and two others of his disciples were together. Simon Peter said to them, ‘I am going fishing.’ They said to him, ‘We will [come] with you.’ They went out and got into the boat, but that night they caught nothing. [It was] as day was breaking, Jesus stood on the shore; yet the disciples did not know that it was Jesus. Jesus said to them, ‘Children, do you have any fish?’ They answered him, ‘No.’ He said to them, ‘Cast the net on the right side of the boat, and you will find some’ — sounds very familiar to the very beginning of the way that Jesus met them — So they cast it, and now they were not able to haul it in, because of the quantity of fish. That disciple whom Jesus loved therefore said to Peter, ‘It is the Lord!’ When Simon Peter heard that it was the Lord, he put on his outer garment, for he was stripped for work, and threw himself into the sea. The other disciples came in the boat, dragging the net full of fish, for they were not far from the land, but about a hundred yards off. When they got out on land, they saw a charcoal fire in place, with fish laid out on it, and bread. Jesus said to them, ‘Bring some of the fish that you have just caught.’ ... And although there were so many, the net was not torn. Jesus said to them, ‘Come and have breakfast’ (John 21:1-12a, ESV).

And going to verse 15 is where we pick up with Jesus and Peter in a new conversation. It says, “When they had finished breakfast, Jesus said to Simon Peter, ‘Simon, son of John, do you love me more than these?’ He said to him, ‘Yes, Lord; you know that I love you.’ He said to him, ‘Feed my lambs.’ He said to him a second time, ‘Simon, son of John, do you love me?’ He said to him, ‘Yes, Lord; you know that I love you.’ He said to him, ‘Tend my sheep.’ He said to him the third time, ‘Simon, son of John, do you love me?’ Peter was grieved because he said to him the third time, ‘Do you love me?’ And he said to him, ‘Lord, you know everything; you know that I love you.’ Jesus said to him, ‘Feed my sheep. Truly, truly, I say to you, when you were young, you used to dress yourself and walk wherever you wanted, but when you are old, you will stretch out your hands, and another will dress you and carry you where you do not want to go’" (John 21:15-18, ESV).

And this moment is so powerful because in all of Scripture, in all of the Gospels, a charcoal fire is only recorded two whole times. And the first time we see it recorded is this devastating moment with Peter around a charcoal fire, the moment where he denies ... Peter [does] three times, but then Jesus, knowing that he could have shown up anywhere ... he could have met Peter anywhere.
Where does he meet him? He meets him on the shore at daybreak around no other than a charcoal fire. And I love this moment because the third time we see that Jesus asked Peter, “Do you love me?” It said that Peter was grieved because at that moment he did not understand what Jesus was doing. And I'm sure, I resonate with Peter. I would've thought, How much do I have to prove to You that I love You? But we know this now, Jesus was not asking Peter, Do you love Me for Jesus' sake? Jesus was asking Peter, Do you love Me for Peter's sake? He was really putting on display what He does as a God of redemption. And for every single, “Do you love me?” He was redeeming the denial. And one time for every denial, He says, “Do you love me?” And I love this because I truly believe as we see throughout Scriptures, and as I see throughout my own testimony, Jesus will move into as many spaces, as many memories, as many hometowns, as many relationships as we will let Him, and He won't just enter in; He will actually redeem.

And so closing the circle with my own story back to when I was walking through with my own father, I remember, as I said, the weeks that followed his passing. I was plagued with this reality that I would never get a chance for my dad to know how much I loved him and that he passed away not knowing this. And this was a lie truly that would've let me live my entire life in shame and regret and brokenness. And if I'm being completely honest, sometimes the shame we carry can be so heavy that it can cause us to even question our own life. And I remember being in such a hard place that I was like, I don't know if I can live the rest of my life with this reality. And God knew that. And so I remember about two months after his passing, I wake up one morning, and I was physically unable to get ... Excuse me, I was physically unable to get out of bed.
And my mom came in, and I remember saying, "Mom, I can't go to school this morning." I was mentally, I was spiritually, [and] I was physically exhausted. And so she allowed me to stay home. And I remember drifting off back to sleep in my incredibly dark state. And I woke up around noon, and I remember thinking, I should probably get some water. I should go downstairs. And so I stumbled to the door, I opened the door, and I looked down, and there's a letter waiting for me. And it was in an envelope. And I will never forget the handwriting on it. It was my dad's handwriting. And immediately my heart starts pounding. And I had a million questions going through my head of, Oh, my goodness, my dad wrote me a letter. What does it say? When did he write this? I'm sure he is so ashamed of me. I'm sure this letter is going to contain his disappointment in his daughter.

And so I pick up the letter, I go downstairs, and I'm sitting there, and when I finally decide to open it, the first two sentences read like this. It says, "Morgan, if you're reading this letter, I have now died, and I have gone to be in heaven with our God."

And the second sentence says this, "Morgan, I want you to know that I know how much you truly loved me." And I read that sentence again and again and again. And I thought, Am I really reading this correctly? Is he saying that I know how much you truly loved me? And at the time I remember thinking, This is so strange. Why would it not just say, “Morgan, I want you to know that I love you so much”? But he knew and God knew that I knew that my dad loved me. But God knew what I really needed to hear was that my earthly father knew how much I truly loved him.

And I remember in that moment, chains broke off. Freedom was extended to me, and shame that I would've carried for my entire life was no longer going to be a part of my story. And so, friends, if you're listening, this is what our God does. He met Peter at a charcoal fire. He spoke words to him; He spoke truths to him that would set Peter free for the rest of his life. And as we know, Peter went on to be one of the most incredible church leaders in all of history. And that's what He did in my story. He moved in, He met me in a way that would only mean something to me, and He broke off lies of the enemy. He broke off shame, and He offered me freedom from my past and hope for my future. And so I hope that's an encouragement to anyone out there who has something maybe in their past, maybe something in their present.

And I want to encourage you, anyone out there to know that He won't do it in the same way that He met Peter. He won't do it in the same way He met me. He will do it in a way that's even better because it will be personal. It will show of His kindness, His intentionality toward you as His daughter to move into your life in ways that won't just let you know that He's there but ways that will also let you know that He is in the business of freeing and redeeming. So yeah, thank you all so much for listening, and I'm just grateful this morning that we have a God who doesn't leave us where we are, but takes us back to our past, not just to relive it but to actually redeem it.

Meredith Brock:
Amen, Morgan. I mean, that is who our God is. He's a redeemer. He's the one I think back in that passage in Genesis of Abraham and Sarah and Hagar. And what does He say to Hagar? I am the God who sees. And our God is the God who sees, and I can't help ... as you were sharing your story, which wow, what a special story to have. And man, just grateful for your father's foresight and his obedience to the Holy Spirit. He couldn't have known how deeply you would wrestle with that, but the Holy Spirit certainly did and encouraged him to write that letter just the way that you needed it to be, which is just incredible and makes me so grateful for our very personal God. But as I listened to you share your story, I was really struck with the emotion of shame is probably one of the most powerful, crippling and controlling emotions that humans can have.

I think it's one that Satan loves to use as a tool on a regular basis. I've had a lot of people in my family and in my life struggle with addiction, significant different types of addiction. And I have seen what I call the “shame cycle” play out many, many, many times in the landscape of addiction. And here's what it usually looks like. They use some kind of substance, or whatever their addiction is, to numb a feeling that they have something bad has happened. And so they use their substance of choice, whatever that might be, to numb that feeling. And then they feel immediate regret and shame then because they did it, but they feel a little better because they're numbed out, right? And then they wake up the next day, and they're like, I'm never going to do that again. I feel so much shame. And then something bad happens again, and they do it again.
And it's just this consistent cycle of being sucked back down because of the crippling feeling of shame, of I am worthless. I don't matter; nobody cares about me. Yeah, that feeling of just I'm never going to be good enough. And so they mask it with feelings of that desire to reach out for their addiction. And I am just ... I know the statistics; I don't know them at the top of my head, but the number of people who struggle with addiction, whether it be substance abuse, whether it be scrolling on social media, whether it be ... There's a lot of stuff, guys, pornography, all kinds of stuff that we use to numb out and typically numb that feeling of shame. Morgan, maybe there's a girl listening right now, realizing and seeing for the very first time, wow, it actually is shame, the feeling, the emotion of shame that has been motivating my actions. Whether it be to self-numbing or it sounded like in your story it was pulling away. It was brick-walling the people that you love. Talk to her for a minute. What should she do first? When she feels that sense of shame so deeply, what should she do first to begin finding her way out?

Morgan Krueger:
Yeah. Well, as you talk about that girl, in the sense of shame, I was that girl. And so in real time as I think about her, what I wish I could do is give her a big hug and buy her a cup of coffee and sit with her. And I think oftentimes what shame also tells us, Meredith, is that we are unworthy of someone else walking alongside us and really holding our stories. And as we can see the enemy, you don't have to go far in Scripture, you can see in Genesis 3, that's his primary attack is if he can get us to question the goodness of God and the danger of sin, then he can have a lot of us. And as we can see too, this natural progression, once he convinces Eve to eat of the fruit of the tree, of the knowledge of good and evil, she then passes it to her husband.

And at that point, sin and brokenness leads to shame, which oftentimes, if we don't run to the Lord, it leads to hiding. And so that was the enemy's tactic the entire time ... was isolation. And as I have seen in my own life, we are created for just two things. And now everything else falls under these two things. But we are created for two things: We are created for union with God, and we are created for union with others. And the enemy, time after time after time, tries to isolate us from the Lord, and he tries to isolate us from other people. Because he knows that when we are connected to safe, compassionate community, chains fall off; shame cannot stay. And so what I would say to that girl is: What would it look like for you to trust that in God's design, He makes space for you through time with Him and time with others?
And I'm such a firm believer on the reality that not everyone needs to know everything about our story, but everyone needs somebody who knows everything about our story. And that's what really broke some chains off for me ... I really started to pray through what friend could I call and ask to create some space for me to share so that I can step into the light. And I looked for three main characteristics. And if anyone's listening, I would write these down as you pray through who that person could be for you. But I thought about these three main characteristics. I thought about compassion. Jesus was the essence of compassion. Scripture tells us that He had compassion on the people of God because they were like a sheep without a shepherd. So someone with compassion; second, someone with empathy, someone who doesn't just listen to listen, but someone who listens to learn, someone who actually wants to understand as much about your story as possible.

And then third, grace; Jesus is the essence of grace. He went to the cross to extend this uncomfortable, unmerited grace to us. And so as I prayed through this, I thought of a friend; her name was Dottie. Shae, I think you maybe know Dottie, but I thought of Dottie. And I called her up, and I said, "Dottie, can I meet up with you at a coffee shop? And will you sit with me for two hours, and can I tell you every single thing I've ever done?" And it was the weirdest request ever. But guess what? Because of who I chose, she said, "Morgan, absolutely." So we met up, and I'll tell you what; I can't remember most of what she said to me that day, but I will never forget the look in her eyes. I will never forget the tears that rolled down her cheeks as she listened to parts of my story.

And I walked out of that coffee shop more free and more redeemed than I ever even thought was possible this side of heaven. And so that's a practical encouragement. Study the Scriptures, study Genesis 1-3, study the Gospels, and then also call a friend. Sit with them in the flesh, and make sure that you are saying things out loud so that it no longer has a grip on you. And that you can walk into the light of freedom that Christ has really purchased for us. So it's a beautiful design, and it's simple. We are created for God and for others, but oftentimes it's difficult to walk out. But I tell you: If we take that first step of obedience, Jesus will quickly meet us in that space.

Meredith Brock:
That's good. That's really good.

Shae Hill:
That's so good, Morgan. I love how you gave that example of reaching out to a friend because as you were taking us through the two passages in John, which I've read these passages before, it really hit me that when Peter disqualified ... or when he denied Jesus, which led him to feeling disqualified and stuck in shame, he was by himself; he was isolated — away from his friends and from his people. But then the story that you took us to in John 21, his redemption really takes place in the setting of friends. And so I think that's so timely that you shared that example of how your friend played that role in your life. And I hope that brings encouragement to someone today. But I wanted to ask you ... I know that you gave the example of things from your past that contributed to you living in shame for a while, and you've obviously really worked through that now, but when shame kind of comes back up in your thought process, because this is often how it comes up for me is shame will be a script that will run through my mind. And it's really hard sometimes to make simple decisions or discern if it's something from the Holy Spirit. Or is it my shame, or is it my flesh? That can all just get really convoluted in your thoughts. And so do you have any practical advice for us today for someone who may be getting tripped up in shame within their thought life? Maybe they've already gone through a huge breakthrough of really identifying shame plays a role in their life, but they just need a little bit more practical guidance on denying the shame in their thoughts on a daily way.

Morgan Krueger:
That's such a good question, Shae. As you were just sharing, I was thinking about Genesis 3, when the enemy, he uses these certain tactics, right? And one of the biggest tactics that he uses is convincing us to entertain a conversation with him. And he knows if he can get us in some casual dialogue. And oftentimes, even though we all know Ephesians 6, that we are not at war with flesh and blood but with spiritual darkness and principalities in the heavenly places, in the spiritual realms, oftentimes when we are really struggling with our thought life and toxic thoughts, we just think it's our own issue. Or we think, Oh, well, everybody struggles with this. And yes, it's a really common thing, but what would it look like to understand that? What if this dialogue is with something bigger than just ourselves? What if it is the enemy convincing us to entertain a conversation with him?

And I think about Genesis 3, he says to Eve, very casually and with a statement that almost sounds like the truth. He said, "Did God really say not to eat of any tree in the garden?" And right there, something that seems so casual led to the fall of human beings and the severance of God and man and the union between us. And so I would just encourage people when you find yourself in a toxic thought spiral, or if you find yourself on your own going back to these hard places or just letting your mind by default have these really hard memories or have these places that take you back to shame, my practical advice, one would be, we should be doing this with whatever we're facing in our lives, but carry a Bible with you everywhere you go. I know that sounds extreme, but this Word is living and active, and it has the power to penetrate our thought life.

And so open the Word, and thank God for technology, pros and cons, right? And there's a lot of cons to technology, but we have this ability to also carry the Word of God with us through our phones everywhere we go. And I would just say, too, I think in terms of prayers to pray, turn those thoughts into prayer. So when we're just having these toxic thoughts, that's not praying; that's really just entertaining conversations apart from Christ, but turn those thoughts. We don't have to deny the thoughts to turn to prayer. We actually can bring those thoughts into a prayer. And if someone out there is like, OK, well what do I pray? Or where do I look? I think the Psalms are a wonderful place, because it's this duplicitous like joys and sorrows and it's all existing in one. And it really exposes the human heart that we can both praise God and we can be wrestling at the same time.

And so I would say the Psalms are such an incredible place to go. And then obviously the Gospels. I think as women, it's really important for us to understand and study the way that Jesus interacted with women in Scripture. And we just covered John 21 with Peter, but there are so many stories with women in Scripture. I think about John 4, John 8, [and] so many others. And I would encourage women out there to know these stories well, because even in John 4, the woman at the well, Jesus had this dialogue with her. He also brought up her past, but he did it in a way to where she actually went back to her town. It was a woman of shame and hiding. She went back to her town and proclaimed that the Messiah had come, and she actually, in all of recorded history, became the first evangelist for Christ.

And so I think about this, this is what happens when we go back and revisit the hard, not with the enemy but actually with Jesus. So practically take the Word with you everywhere you go; have those verses to pull from when you are struggling with shame because truly He is our weapon. The Word of God is our weapon. Christ is our weapon. And let's also be aware that our thought life isn't just our own thought life. It is a dialogue with the enemy if we're willing to bring Christ into it. And so I think just that realization allows us the tools to actually fight against shame and fight with tools that actually lead to freedom.

Shae Hill:
That's so good, Morgan. Thank you for sharing that. I needed to hear that today. And I know that someone on the other end of listening to this conversation also did. So thank you so much for just sharing your story with us, being so generous with that but also just pointing us back to the Truth of God's Word. We're so thankful for everything that you shared with us today. So I want to wrap us up, but before we let our listeners go, I just have a few little closing announcements. First, guys, make sure you go grab Morgan's book. I got to dive into it this week, and there is so much goodness in it.

I was just flipping through and just seeing so many of the call-out quotes on the side, and just so many good truths that are in there. And I know it'll be a blessing to you. So we'll link a copy of her book in our show notes. So make sure you get that. And it's called Goodbye Hiding, Hello Freedom. And lastly, make sure you connect with Morgan and her ministry, Faithfully Restored, on Instagram. We'll also link those links in our show notes.

Meredith Brock:
Also, as we end the year, it's important to do so just like Morgan said in God's Word. So we want to invite you guys to join us in our very free First 5 mobile app, starting on December 1, as we study the topic of lights in Scripture through a study that is titled Light of the World: 20 Scriptures for When You Can't See Through the Darkness. This study is completely free and takes place exclusively in the First 5 mobile app. So be sure to download the app in any app store you might be using, and we'll meet you there as we start studying lights on December 1.

Shae Hill:
So good to be with you guys today, Morgan and Meredith. That's it for today, friends. At Proverbs 31 Ministries, we believe when you know the Truth and live the Truth, it changes everything.