The Proverbs 31 Ministries Podcast

Kaley Olson:

Well, hello everyone, and welcome to The Proverbs 31 Ministries Podcast, where we share biblical Truth for any girl in any season. I'm your host, Kaley Olson, and I'm excited to be here today with you guys and even more excited for who is in the room. We've got Melissa Taylor. Hey, Melissa.

Melissa:

Hi. Hey, Kaley.

Kaley Olson:

And Kendra LeGrand.

Kendra:

Hey, Kaley.

Kaley Olson:

Hey, both from Proverbs 31, and y'all, we have a special conversation ahead of us. Today's show will be a little bit more like a Q&A than a teaching, kind of like a coaching session in a way, where we hope to leave you better than where you started today and with a lot of equipping along the way. But anyways, I do have to say you might even hear something we've been keeping a big secret at Proverbs 31 at the very end of the show.

Kendra:

Right. Yeah.

Kaley Olson:

This is a big deal.

Melissa:

Like three years in the making.

Kaley Olson:

A long time in the making, but before we jump into that, I do want to have an honest conversation with you guys today about feeling stuck, and here's the thing. I trust you guys. Melissa, I've worked with you for 10 years when I started at Proverbs 31 when I was 14. I'm just kidding. I was 22 when I started at Proverbs, kind of like a baby, and in some ways, you're like a mom to me, because you are around-ish my mom's age.

Melissa:

That's right, yeah.

Kaley Olson:

And you really helped me grow up. And, Kendra, I worked with you for eight years? Eight ... seven years, a long time. Been through a lot together.

Kendra:

Yes.

Kaley Olson:

And what I know about you guys ... that you are people that I trust, and you're people that I have both come to you and then sometimes you've come to me —

Kendra:

Right.

Kaley Olson:

Kind of with this feeling of, "I'm stuck. Can you help me here?" And we've worked through some things together. A lot of it has been with work, but, Kendra, you and I are in a similar season of life, and so I think we've been able to dialogue a little bit about that together. I don't know that Melissa would've ever come to me for advice on parenting because I am only a parent of a 2-year-old, but working like co-workers, we've processed a lot together.

Kendra:

Yes, we have.

Kaley Olson:

But here's the thing about being stuck that I want to talk about. This isn't a small stuck feeling. This isn't being small and stuck in way of choosing what color you want to paint your kitchen cabinets. That's a decision that can be hard and sometimes can leave you stuck, but at the end of the day, it's kitchen cabinets. I'm talking about being stuck in life. Maybe you've got a pattern that you're stuck in; you're stuck in a friendship. Maybe your leadership has a growth milestone you just can't seem to get over, and maybe you keep doing what you don't want to do. That's the feeling of stuff that I'm talking about. And so, for our listeners out there, maybe you find yourself asking, "Why can't I get over this?" because the feeling of being stuck in this area isn't foreign to you. That's the thing. You don't get stuck once and realize you're stuck. Usually it's this cycle that you just find yourself in over and over again, and you think, Why am I doing this? Why do I still end up here?

It's unfortunately but surprisingly familiar. And so, guys, I brought you on the show today because, like I said, we've processed this together, and I know you guys have worked together long enough where y'all process this with each other way more than I probably have with you in the past, but here's when I know it to be true. The stuckness we feel, combined with the unsettledness that comes with it, is an indicator that we do have capacity to make change in our life. Being stuck is a really, really hard feeling. But if we are believers, which I believe most people who listen to this podcast are, then we have something called the Holy Spirit inside of us who really can just put a little red flag up whenever we're feeling stuck, and left on our own, we wouldn't know what to do, but He who inside us has given us the gifting and the ability we need to kind of climb out of that, but it's really leaning into Him and the people around us and making some necessary changes in our life that will help get us unstuck.

Kendra:

Easier said than done.

Kaley Olson:

I know. I know. It's so hard, but I feel like this is such a normal feeling. The whole "why can't I get over this?" feeling is normal, but honestly, we don't really talk to each other about it, because in some ways, the pattern of being stuck is embarrassing.

Melissa:

I was going to say it's embarrassing.

Kaley Olson:

It's so embarrassing.

Melissa:

It keeps coming back, and you're like, I should be over this by now. I'm 32. I should know better, but I don’t.

Kaley Olson:

Yeah, I agree. If anybody here listens to Therapy & Theology, which is another podcast that we have hosted by Lysa TerKeurst with one of her counselors Jim Crest, and Joel Muddamalle is on the show, but Jim always uses the ... Is it called an acronym? Is that whenever you spell it out with the —

Melissa:

Yeah.

Kaley Olson:

OK, great. That word is really hard for me sometimes, but he says, SHAME — S-H-A-M-E is self-hatred at my expense. And I think that that's a great —

Kendra:

Ooh.

Kaley Olson:

Right? I think that's a great word and description for the way that we feel when we can't get over something.

And so I do want to have a productive conversation today where we're able to coach ourselves and coach our listeners through "How do I know that I'm stuck? What am I feeling?" Then, "Where have I specifically been stuck before? What do I do when I'm stuck? What have I learned that has helped me that I now embrace as a practice?" And then, "What are some pitfalls that I can try to avoid falling back into?" And then, "What do we do about it to not get stuck again?”

So that's where our conversation is going to go today. But first, guys, I have to let you know we've put together a free resource called “Why Can't I Get Over This?” Clever title, I know.

Melissa:

It's so good.

Kaley Olson:

But this is a companion that goes with today's episode that you can download for free. And so if this conversation kind of sparks something in you, where you feel like, OK, I am so ready to not be stuck anymore; I want to put this into practice. This is the tip of the iceberg today with what we're going to talk about, where you will definitely get some practical tools to help you and apply today right now. But I highly recommend downloading the resources.

Melissa:

It's so good. I worked through it to prepare for this. It's so good.

Kaley Olson:

I know. It's got five steps; there are questions to process in it. It's a great, great guide, and I cannot believe something this valuable is free, so please go download it using the link in our show notes. But let's get into this. OK, you ready? I'm going up.

Kendra:

Ready.

Kaley Olson:

Here we go. All right. So I would like to talk about what feeling stuck feels like to each of us. Melissa, do you want to go first?

Melissa:

Yeah, I'll go first. It's very frustrating to me and especially I'm a little bit older than you guys.

Kaley Olson:

You can't tell.

Melissa:

A couple of decades or so. But yes, I will say I now can catch myself earlier than I could before, but it's still very frustrating when I think, What is wrong with me? I know better. The Holy Spirit is living inside of me. So what's wrong with me? As a Christian woman, why am I feeling stuck? And I know I want a different outcome and an action in my life, but sometimes I just don't know how to move or I'm not moving to get past it.

Kaley Olson:

Yeah. So you're frustrated.

Melissa:

Frustrated.

Kaley Olson:

Yes.

Melissa:

I get it. I get it.

Kendra:

That's a good word. You said it's hard to move. I would say paralyzing sometimes, like you don't know what to do next because you feel like you've tried everything to get out of this pit you're in or to get out of the stuckness that you have. And so you don't know what to do next, where to go next, and it's very overwhelming.

Melissa:

Yeah, I agree.

Kendra:

That's what I would say.

Kaley Olson:

I agree. For me, it feels very defeating or self-defeating, especially whenever I know I should be past this. And in a way, it kind of feels like all of the progress that I have made ... typically, I'm not necessarily stuck at the beginning of something, right? It's like I get to a point in the cycle of moving through something where then I feel stuck, and all of a sudden, I'm defeated, and it feels like I have lost at that point. And like you said, Kendra, it's very overwhelming because you just feel like, OK, what do I do now? Do I have to start over?

Melissa:

Is it even worth doing again?

Kaley Olson:

Yeah.

Melissa:

Can I just not worry about it anymore, or is it really going to impact me?

Kaley Olson:

Yeah, for sure. And I think it's interesting how we all feel differently about what feeling stuck feels like for us. And so if you're listening to this, take a moment and just kind of think, What does this feel like for you? If you're stuck in an area — which we are all human; we all get stuck all the time — this is a very normal part of life, but you're experiencing it differently, and everybody has their own feelings. So think about that for just a moment. So now what I want us to do, and for the sake of transparency —

Kendra:

It's always good to do.

Kaley Olson:

— we're going to go real here. I know ... I know. But if we're going to actually help them get past being stuck, I think we have to be honest about what we've been stuck in so that they can trust that we actually have made some progress in our life here.

So I would like us to share an area of stuckness that we have been through recently. Kendra, do you want to go first?

Kendra:

Oh, yes, I would love to. OK. Mine has to do with an unhealthy mindset about my body image. So I feel like just as humans, we're always passing mirrors or doors that are transparent, and you see yourself in it. And I instantly will look at myself in a mirror or look at myself in a door and be like, Oh, I don't like how that fits me today. Or Oh, I don't like how my hair is. Or Oh, my stomach feels like it's coming out a little bit. And I don't like that. And it has been something that has plagued me since after college. So I got through the middle school years just fine. I don't know what that was. I loved middle school.

A lot of people struggle with it then. This happened to me like 23, and I'm now 32, and there's cycles of it. Sometimes I struggle with it more than others, but when I get back into that head space of struggling with it, I get so frustrated with myself, and I try different things, but it just comes back. And I know the scriptures: "You're fearfully, wonderfully made"; "You're made in the image of God," and that should be enough to be like, You're right; it's OK. This is fine. But I still kind of get down in the dumps and pick myself apart more than I would like. So I get stuck in my negative head space about that.

Melissa:

And we think because we grow up, we should get over it or we should know better.

Kendra:

Right.

Melissa:

But look at you; it got worse as you grew up. Your mind wasn't going there when you were younger. And I think that says a lot about who's speaking into our lives, what we're —

Kendra:

Consuming. Social media is great, but that could have something to it too. I don't know. You're right.

Kaley Olson:

Kendra, how have you noticed that moment in your day where all of a sudden everything is fine? Then you said you feel stuck in that mindset. How does that then impact the rest of your day whenever you have that moment of stuckness?

Kendra:

That is a good question. I mean, I think I just feel down about myself, and I think I would feel so much better, more confident in the work I'm putting out or more confident in my conversations with people if I felt good about myself. But because there's that little seed that maybe I go into the work bathroom and the fluorescent lights —

Melissa:

It's the best lighting.

Kendra:

— just shows some more flaws. You think you look good, and then you're like, Oh, wow. I think it just takes a block from my confidence, and then it just seeps into maybe other areas that I'm walking through.

Kaley Olson:

Yeah, I asked that question because we can be killing it in so many other areas of our life, but if there's this one area of stuckness, isn't it crazy how we can park on that, and then it seeps into everything? And that feeling of overwhelm that you talked about earlier ... you're not only overwhelmed now about your body; you're overwhelmed about everything else.

Kendra:

And I'll go home, and I'll be in a bad mood, or I'll have sharp comments to my husband, and I know it just stemmed from not feeling good about myself. So yeah, it does flow into other areas.

Kaley Olson:

Wow. That's crazy. Melissa, I want to know —

Kendra:

Your turn.

Kaley Olson:

— where have you felt stuck recently?

Melissa:

OK, one cycle that I've noticed repeating in my life on feeling stuck ... I can completely relate to what you just said. I've been there and am still, but I will think about the past and wish I had do-overs, and I can get stuck wishing I could go back or thinking if I had only done something this way. And my kids are older now, as you guys know; they're all in their twenties, even got one in the thirties.

But I see a younger mom — I look at you guys with your kids — and I just think, Oh, I wish I could go back so bad. That season's gone. I won't have that again. And it just breaks my heart. It's like a grieving in a way that I need to get over because I might yearn for those days and I might wish I had do-overs. There's going to be things that you wish you had done different. You wonder like, Oh gosh, are my kids suffering because I made this choice? or whatever.

But we're going to miss today. I miss today if I'm [inaudible] over the past. And a great example is one of my children was recently diagnosed with a form of autism, and I felt so guilty. How did I miss that? And it answered a lot of questions both for him and for my husband and I, but it's like, How did we miss this? Did we do a disservice? And he had to discover this all on his own, but it's turned out fine. But I look back and I think, Oh, I just wish. And the stuckness of that is going to affect my life today if I don't get unstuck.

Kendra:

That's true.

Kaley Olson:

I literally was thinking of asking you that question: How does that feeling of being stuck reviewing your past as a mom impact you today?

Melissa:

If I'm viewing it with that unhealthy mindset, which I do believe ... we know who God is in our lives. We know, like you said, what the scriptures say, but I have to get in that place to where I decide, "OK, I'm going to hang on, even if it's just by a string, I'm going to hang on to what I know. And if God has me here today, and He does, then there's a reason I'm here today." And so the only way for me to get unstuck is to make that mindful decision to talk to you, Kaley, if we're having lunch together, and I have this opportunity to be honest, where then I have these trusted people who can speak back into my life and tell me that I matter today, because I know that's what I would say to one of you. And sometimes we can work it out with the Lord and get out ourselves, but sometimes it just helps to talk to other people about it so they can walk it with you.

Kaley Olson:

Yeah, I agree. I want to come back to what you just said there because we are going to go into that a little bit further. I have another question for you.

Melissa:

OK.

Kaley Olson:

If you are on your way to work, you pass by their high school, don't you?

Melissa:

I sure do.

Kaley Olson:

You pass by their high school on your way to work, and that feeling hits you; do you find it easy to leave it at the door when you come in to work?

Melissa:

It depends on the day. I mean, sometimes I drive by, and I see the carpool, or I see school just getting out or whatever, and I smile because the memories ... we're OK; we're good. And we were at that school all the time, four kids. And I mean, one was in the band, one was on the football team, [and] one's in arts and drama and stuff. And so we were there all the time. But I think now I just try to say, "That was good. That was good. We learned a lot.”

Kendra:

And they're still good today.

Melissa:

Yeah, I mean, not all of it was good. So it just depends on the day.

Kaley Olson:

Yeah. The reason I ask you that question is kind of the same reason I ask you, Kendra, about your body image: If you had a moment with that, does it impact everything else? Or, Melissa, are you able to really leave it at the door to where I think in life it's so easy to compartmentalize this area that we might feel stuck in, but we don't realize, especially as women, nothing is compartmentalized. Everything touches everything and everything is ... Yeah, it's connected, Kendra, and we can think we have control over this area, and we can stuff where we feel stuck, but in reality, we can't unless we address it.

Melissa:

I will say though: I think the older I get, I realize my time ahead is probably less than my time behind. I mean, maybe not. Maybe I'll live to be 114.

Kendra:

That would be great.

Melissa:

I don't know.

Kaley Olson:

Still working on staff at Proverbs at 114 years old. Our matriarch.

Kendra:

Take the elevator maybe instead of the stairs.

Melissa:

So I don't want to waste the time I have left. I want to live it. And so that's what kind of helps me because this is not the only time I have felt stuck in the past. It's like this is a repetitive cycle, and I'm like, No, I want to live, but I can't live if I'm stuck.

Kaley Olson:

Yeah, I agree. I agree. All right, I'm going to round us out here with this.

OK. So where I have felt stuck before is starting every day at zero, believing that my work proves my worth. And so I'm an Enneagram 1 ... for those of you who lean into that, it's a helpful tool, not like an excuse over here, but typically some of my tendencies will end up being overly perfectionist if I'm not really, really careful. And in seasons where I have not been careful about that, that's led me to feeling stuck. And so I would end my day feeling like, Oh, I got this accomplished. We did this, we won here, [and] this happened — all of that. But then I would wake up the next day and almost have this tightness in my chest driving to work thinking like, OK, I got to do it all again. I can't let anybody down. I can't let myself down. I got to do this or —

Kendra:

Keep all the balls in the air.

Kaley Olson:

Yeah. Or if I am giving a response, it's almost like the feeling of if I am sharing about something, every single word that I say is being judged as like, Oh, it has to be worth it. I don't know. It was a really, really hard season in my life, where I realized that I would start my day stuck in this perfectionist mentality and it would impact everything no matter what permission I had been given to run free in an area. But I did notice, I mean that season, kind of like you said, Kendra, you would bark at your husband all because you felt this feeling that he had nothing to do with —

Kendra:

No, nothing to do with it.

Kaley Olson:

— and it made me hole up and not really want to talk to anybody about it because that's embarrassing. No one wants to talk about starting your day feeling like that.

Kendra:

Feeling that tightness in your chest. That's a real thing, Kaley. I don't know, did you feel like you wanted every day to be better than the last? Or you just wanted to measure up to making sure I make all the right moves and all the right decisions?

Kaley Olson:

I don't think that I was trying to make it better than the last. I just thought, OK, it's a new day. And there's the promise in the Bible, and Lamentations is like, "His mercies are new every day." But this was not that. This wasn't a new mercy that I felt. I woke up feeling like, OK, now I've got to pull myself up by my bootstraps again today. I have to show up again rather than walking into the day just confident that we're going to get done what we can get done, we're going to give it our best, and then we're going to [inaudible].

Kendra:

You coached me on that computer.

Kaley Olson:

Did I?

Kendra:

You did. You said Meredith shared with you, who's your host on the podcast, that like, Lord, I give you today whatever I get done. I know you want me to get done or something. That's bad wording.

Kaley Olson:

This was years ago, and I shared something with you guys I have been over because I wanted to be careful not to share something that I was super right in the middle of. But you're right; she did help me years and years ago because she knew I could be more joyful than I was in the room, and I kind of was walking hesitant everywhere. And she was like, "Why are you doing that?" in her very own way, but that really, really helped me just kind of brief —

Kendra:

Surrender.

Kaley Olson:

A little bit. Yeah.

Melissa:

Kaley, I think what you just shared ... I think is the case for most people. When they get up in the mornings feeling that confidence to step into and to be yourself, not just think of things but actually say them and act on them. I think that's something that a lot of people struggle with, and oh my goodness, it's sad, but I can completely relate to that. In fact, I think most days on my drive into work I'm pulling myself up by the bootstraps and saying, "You were made for today," affirming myself. You know what I mean? If I say it enough, I'm going to believe it, and maybe I'll live it today.

Kaley Olson:

Yeah, that's so true. But I think there's this common thread that no matter what we're struggling with, our listeners, whatever that thing is that you're finding yourself stuck in you've realized based on our conversations today, it is not just impacting one area in your life. It sneaks into everything. And like I said earlier, if we're believers, we have the Holy Spirit to help us recognize this. But I think equally we have to recognize where the enemy is trying to take territory here. And that's trying to keep us stuck. Because if we are stuck and we are snappy at people or we're walking around defeated all the time or we're walking around regretting what we did or didn't do all of the time, then we're going to miss today; we're going to miss what He has for us today, and we've got to get over that.

And so what I want to do now and then in the next part of our episode, is actively coach each other a little bit by sharing what we've found to be some of the very first steps to take when we feel stuck. And so all of us know. And, Melissa, you mentioned that a little bit earlier where you were like, "This is what I've learned," but let's talk about that because this is where the rubber meets the road. And so I'll go first here.

So we all know my mindset was feeling like I started at zero every single day. So one of the things to do is actually stop, because if I plow through without addressing that, I will continue to feel defeated and I'm trying to prove and go and go throughout my day. At the end of the day, it's really exhausting. And then it can lead to you being mentally exhausted. And so instead, something that's been really helpful for me is to, like I said, literally pause and work through the expectations that I have of myself here. What am I really expecting of me, and what I think others expect of me? Sometimes having a conversation with them so that I can clarify those expectations, because how often do we assign expectations to ourselves that we think someone expects of us that they never actually said?

Melissa:

All the time.

Kaley Olson:

But when I do this, it frees me from trying to do something that was never mine to do in the first place. And it frees me from carrying around that defeat. I love what Psalm 139:23-24 says, "Search me, God, and know my heart; test me and know my concerns. See if there is any offensive way in me; lead me in the everlasting way" (CSB). But God's going to help me. He's going to help to test my thoughts. And part of testing my thoughts is that weighing.

What here am I expecting of myself that I just need to let go of and I need to lay down? And the practice of laying that down then allows me to walk in. And so now sometimes what I do on my way to work is I say what I expect of myself that day, and I make it really realistic. And that sounds really cheesy, and I'll do it with my little boy in the back seat, who a lot of times just says “no” because that's his favorite word. And at that point, he can't really talk back to me. But it's me kind of talking to myself on the way to work. That way when I get in, I can go in and be like, "All right, here we go." And at the end of the day, it's just another day.

So, Melissa, Kendra, what are some things you guys do?

Kendra:

Do you want to go, Melissa?

Melissa:

Sure, sure, sure. I think I remember that God isn't just almighty, powerful Creator of heaven and earth God. He's also my Friend. And a lot of times when I talk to God my Friend, then I remember that oh yeah, God's saying you're here for a purpose: I did make you, and so please live today.

And I've found if I have more conversations with God, then I don't know how it happens, and I do, I just have regular conversations with God. It can be venting, it can be sharing my heart, [or] it can be asking questions that I don't understand. But I found when I have dialogue like that, whether I hear back or not, but when I have it, I just feel better about myself. I think it's almost like you might sound like I'm reminding myself of what God thinks of me, but I feel like when I'm having a conversation, if I think about it, He's telling me, Don't forget what I think of you, and don't forget that there's a reason you're here, and you’ve got to go make this day yours. I can't do everything for you, but you're capable of it, and I'm here with you.

Kaley Olson:

Yeah, that's great, Melissa.

Kendra:

That is good, Melissa. That was a coaching session for sure.

Kaley Olson:

Yeah.

Kendra:

I think for me, I can get so fixated on picking myself apart that something that really helps me is remembering, Oh my gosh, my body was created good. I can pick up a pencil and write, and that's something that my body can do. I can lift five to eight pounds. That's something I can do. Just remembering the good things that my body is capable of. Whatever that looks like, it really helps me start to kind of get out of the picking myself apart. I can take a step; I can pick up my son. So there are good things about my body. I just tend to get stuck in the —

Kaley Olson:

You focus on the can’ts instead of the cans.
Kendra:

Yeah, exactly.

Kaley Olson:

Yeah, I agree. I think a lot of times where Christians can stay stuck is that we think the solution is [praying] God, help me get unstuck, and then we sit there and wait for God to fix it.

And there's nothing wrong with asking God to get you unstuck, but I think, Melissa, kind of like what you said, God wants you to live your best life today. He's given you everything that you need to be able to do that. And I think that part of getting unstuck is actually the processing. It's like what we are choosing to do. It's active participation in a relationship with Him where we're trusting that He will help us get unstuck, but we're not sitting idly by and waiting. The verse in the Bible that says "Be still and know," it's not "be still and do nothing.”

You can be still and know that the Lord is fighting for you, but in this stuckness, you can't just not do anything. So if it's stop and process, if it's really get honest with God and kind of talk to Him and in a way remind Him and remind you about why you're here or, Kendra, remind yourself about what He created your body to do and the goodness that's in that, that's all ways to make progress and ways to start really reframing our brain to quickly get out of those moments rather than fizzling in them.

Some of these things that we mentioned today are in that resource, by the way — just another plug for that. And so if you're looking for those practical handles we just touched on, like I said, tip of the iceberg, go back to that resource there. But here's what I want to do next. So let's say we're finding ourselves stuck again, and we're making progress, but sometimes again, there are these pitfalls where we realize, "OK, maybe I don't have everything that I need to get unstuck. I'm lacking something. What am I not doing?" And one of mine is I don't ask for accountability. I sometimes keep it to myself. So like I said earlier, the feeling of shame sometimes that I felt where I would walk into my day at zero, I didn't want to tell anybody about that. That stinks. That is letting down my guard and letting someone else in on the fact that that's how I was starting my day.

And I guess I didn't want to have anybody else bear that burden. But I'm reminded recently, especially since I've become a mom, we're given two hands for a reason, and that is to ask for help. And there's no reason to be embarrassed about why I'm stuck. And giving somebody else an inside peek into my life and say, "Hey, I'm really struggling with the mentality that I have when I start my day. Can you just check in with me in the mornings?" I didn't do that. But I have started doing that. And it's made a lot of difference, too, to where if I am going into my day and somebody sees that maybe I'm not having the best day or I'm really down, they can be like, "How you doing? Are you hard on yourself? Have you processed this?”

Kendra:

"Did you start your day at zero?”

Kaley Olson:

"Did you start your day at zero? Have you walked through what you're expecting of yourself here?" And so not doing that will keep me stuck. What about you guys? What are some things you've noticed that keep you stuck?

Kendra:

Rallying people around.

Kaley Olson:

Yeah.

Kendra:

Letting people in on what you're struggling with. Because like you said, it can be embarrassing. You're like, Oh, why am I here again? I should know better. But if people know, they can encourage you or pray for you or call it out. Jennie Allen has this thing that she uses for her small group, and now we use it in the small group that I'm in. But it's the whole idea of sharing your 2%. I can share my 98% with you, and you would never know I'm struggling with my body image, but if I actually say, "All right, I'm sharing my 2%. I'm feeling really down in the dumps. I don't like what I look like. I'm struggling with my weight," whatever. That's like to me, I've just bared with you my deepest, darkest thing.

And so sharing my 2% with the people closest and then they can come in for me and guide me along and help me get out of that stuckness or that pit.

Kaley Olson:

Yeah, that's great. When you ask your friend or if you were to be vulnerable with somebody like that, what's a way someone can specifically encourage somebody who is finding themselves stuck in the pit of negative self-image?

Kendra:

That's a good question.

Kaley Olson:

What do you want to hear?

Kendra:

OK, so I'm a very positive person.

Kaley Olson:

You are? Really?

Kendra:

Yeah, it's true. But the thing is, I wouldn't want somebody to say all these positives, right? Like, "Oh, but like, oh, X, Y, Z, and you have this, and this is going on" because that, and probably in that mindset might be a little annoying, but just somebody maybe not even try to fix it but just knows and like, "Hey, I'm really sorry that you're struggling with that," and just hear me out.

And then maybe later come back with like, "Hey, I was praying specifically this for you: that you would not look at yourself in the mirror and see those things but see yourself as the Lord sees you." But in that moment when I share it, just more of like, "Hey, that is tough, and I'm really sorry that you're walking through that." Because sometimes when you share it, you're not really looking for solutions at the time. You're just being brave enough to speak up, and then something will come from that.

Melissa:

Yeah.

Kaley Olson:

Or you're not looking for toxic positivity at the time either.

Melissa:

Yes. And listen, I'm sorry for the people ... I've been toxic positivity too. I know it's come out of my mouth, and I'm sorry.

Kaley Olson:

Yeah, yeah. Melissa, round us out here.

Melissa:

OK. Y'all, I like to stay in my pit alone. I'm comfortable in there alone, and I think if I share, I'm going to bring someone else down. And I don't want to be the downer of the group. Everybody else is having a great time, but this is what I found out. The more relationships that you feel are with people that really love you no matter what, that you can be honest with and you actually invest and spend time in those relationships, I found that it helps me a lot. I enjoy my relationship with my adult kids. I want to embrace that today. I make it a point; I have two friends, Angie and Denise, shout out to y'all. We go walking a few times a week in the late afternoons and just walking. We don't plan; we're not showing up going, "Oh, share what's troubling you today." But we always get into a conversation that either one of us is helping the other or we are striving to get a little bit better with what we're working on because we can be honest.

And I think the walking too, it just kind of frees your mind. You're not sitting so seriously. It's those natural relationships that I have found. And then even I've purposely gotten involved in more smaller communities at my church than I was before. And I think that has helped me a lot. But it's again, taking the action and making the choice to move. Because honestly, sometimes I don't want to go to meet up with people at 6 o'clock at night. I'm tired at the end of the day. I’d just like to go home. But a lot of times when I do, I have some girlfriends and we have a cards night once a month.

Kaley Olson:

I love that.

Melissa:

Once I get there, I'm having a great time, and I'm so glad we did it.

Kaley Olson:

It's just getting there.

Melissa:

Yes. Yeah. It's just doing that stuff with other people has really helped me a lot, even though sometimes I really would rather sit in my pit alone, stay home, and sometimes it's really comfortable there.

Kaley Olson:

Yeah. Absolutely. I think that that's the temptation that we all face: to stay isolated. Like we were talking about, the enemy wants to keep us stuck. He does not want us to recognize that we are stuck. He doesn't want us to take that practical next step, laying out what our expectations are, re-saying out loud what we know to be true about our bodies, or saying now how we can enjoy our life and deliberately saying out loud, "I'm not going to dwell on the past." We can do all of those things, but all of those things are alone. And here's a cool thing about what we all just talked about. There's this aspect of community that if we don't lean into that, even if it's just one other person, to know and have permission to have our 2%, like you said, Kendra, then we are literally alone outside of having Jesus and the Holy Spirit, which is amazing.

They will help you. They're your helpers. They're there, but God put us on earth with other people for a reason. And I think that that's why so many of us stay stuck. Like you said, Melissa, this is such a common feeling that we have. Everybody's walking around feeling stuck, but we're all too embarrassed to talk about it, and we think we can fix it on our own. But all of the common pitfalls that the three of us shared in some way have to do with the fact that I've recognized that I will fall back into this pattern unless I actually tell somebody about it. And I work this out in community, and I want to focus on that. Community is a big deal. So much so that at Proverbs we've noticed this is a huge need for our audience. We reach millions of people every single day.

And I know we're about to talk in just a minute about how we're going to help be the solution there for the community, but how do we know that this is a big need for our audience? You've heard from people.

Kendra:

Knowing that community is a big need for our audience?

Kaley Olson:

Yeah.

Kendra:

Oh yeah. I mean, I feel like we see it throughout the whole ministry in comments that people leave or in surveys that we put out. But we just know that people are looking for other people who understand them, who will listen to them, and who actually have a deep care for them. Because I think you can live life and you can share the 98%, but no one actually truly knows you. And so we see that community here at Proverbs 31 where you can actually be known and share openly and get some good guidance along the way.

Melissa:

Right.

Kaley Olson:

Yeah, I agree. Right. And I think I've noticed too, there are a lot of people who want so desperately to share what they're struggling with, and they will, but it's in a platform or on social media in the great abyss where no one can really do anything but kind of heart your comment. You can't really engage there.

Melissa:

That's a good point.

Kaley Olson:

And so people are really, really struggling, and they're desperate to know that other people see them or that someone else is struggling in the same area that they're struggling in, but they don't really have space to work that out, especially whenever we live busy lives outside of church or if you're plugged in at church. And that's awesome. What else can you do? So [inaudible], Kendra, without further ado, how is Proverbs 31 stepping into this massive need for Christian community for our audience?

Kendra:

We would love to tell you.

Kaley Olson:

Can I drumroll?

Melissa:

We're so excited about this.

Kendra:

Listen, what we're about to share has been three years in the making. Three years ago, we sat in a big boardroom saying, how are people consuming content? But not only that, how are they wanting to come together in community? And from that conversation through three years of surveying and focus groups, we are about to launch Circle 31 Book Club, and it is about to be the bomb.com. And it's a book club that I would want to be a part of, that I'm excited alongside a whole team to build. And the whole idea is for people to come together, have conversations that matter on topics that matter, and do so in a very safe place. It's a place where growth isn't talked about. It actually happens.

And I think that's huge where you're not going to stay stagnant; you're not going to stay stuck. There's something good beyond it, and you get to take a step, and you get to grow, and you get to grow alongside other people. And we're really, really excited about it.

Melissa:

Yes.

Kaley Olson:

I'm excited about it too.

Kendra:

Truly.

Kaley Olson:

Because I think, too, if we all were honest about what we struggle with, we've looked [up] what book can I read to help me with, or whatever.

Kendra:

Like Google “Christian book about X [topic].”

Kaley Olson:

But if we read it on our own and don't tell anybody what we're reading is that —

Melissa:

You're still in it alone.

Kaley Olson:

— where's the progress in that.

Kendra:

Right.

Melissa:

Right.

Kaley Olson:

Melissa, so —

Kendra:

You're still in it alone. But also Proverbs has done the heavy lifting, I would say, to give you trusted resources about that specific thing that you Googled. And so we're going to join together and talk about it.

Kaley Olson:

I love it. I love it. Can you answer a few questions for me?

Kendra:

We would love to.

Kaley Olson:

I know you just said book club, and you just dropped a whole bomb on our audience because they're like, "What? Why this book club? Why now? How much does it cost?" Because here's the thing, there's a lot of book clubs out there.

Melissa:

That's right.

Kendra:

There are. That's true.

Kaley Olson:

But I think what I love about Proverbs is that whatever we do, it's going to be unique and will meet the needs of our audience. We have worked our tails off on figuring out exactly what it is you need. And so when we create a product or a resource or a new experience for you, it's going to be different, and you're going to want to be a part of it. But I want you to answer those questions for our audience.

Kendra:

Yes. OK. So why this book club? Let me tell you why. So it's a place, like I mentioned earlier, where you tackle the hard issues that you're facing, whether that's grieving the past or whether that's the performance or maybe body issues. And you tackle them briefly, and you learn about them, and you get some ways to move forward, and you make spiritual progress. It's a place where what's kind of fun, Kaley, that's new, is that we're going to have discussion groups, a few discussion groups for each book club, and they're going to be led by Proverbs 31 staff.

Kaley Olson:

I love that.

Kendra:

Which is great. And so I think that is very unique because you know who you're being led by or who's leading the conversation with you or somebody who either has been part of the topics that are being talked about or just really cares about you, because that's what we do here at Proverbs. We care about the people we serve, and we get to do that in a cool way. And then also, we've just spent years looking at what our people want, and we've built something that we believe will answer those questions and conversations that they're having too.

Kaley Olson:

I love that.

Melissa:

Right. Each book has a lot of prayer and reading through it; they're not just like, "Oh, that's a good title. Let's do that one." We have put so much into the research and the reading and making sure that whoever is leading our groups on staff, they can identify, they care about you, but they also have some type of connection to what the book is about and what we're trying to get through it. And every book might be a little bit different. It's not going to be just your average book club. Some books will be different. We'll be reading some stuff we haven't read before in book club. And so we're very —

Kendra:

It's free. It is free. And it's on a platform, which is really neat.

Melissa:

We hope you'll buy the book.

Kendra:

We hope you buy the book. Yes.

Kaley Olson:

But we say platform ... we just tell you.

Melissa:

Can you explain that?

Kaley Olson:

Yes. It's where the book club will take place. So you can do it on your desktop, or you can actually download the platforms app and do it right there from the ease of your phone, which is exciting. But it's all housed on just a very easy-to-use I call it “platform,” but I don't know if that's —

Kendra:

It's a space for community —

Melissa:

Community space. That's what I was going to say.

Kendra:

OK, girls. Community space. Exactly.

Kaley Olson:

I asked [inaudible] platform; some people might [inaudible] a two-foot-tall stage platform, so I had to ask.

Kendra:

Online community space.

Kaley Olson:

Online community space. Yes. But, Melissa, I love what you said earlier about we're going to read some different books, and I want to speak to that a little bit because I know as believers, there's so many resources out there. Think about the amazing authors that write really incredible books based on struggles they've been through and that they've tackled and they've learned and they've put together. I mean our very own Lysa TerKeurst is the queen author, the matriarch author, out there who has written so many helpful books that have helped people tackle an area that they've struggled with in their life. And that's what I love about this. It's like development is developing ourselves alongside other women who also want to get better and want to be challenged to not stay where we are.

Kendra:

And you will be challenged. That's the thing. “Brave” is a huge word we're using because in order to be challenged, you have to speak up that you want to be pushed a little bit. And so we're going to push, we'll push gently, and we'll be beside you, but we want you to get better because good happens when you grow. And I think that's a very big difference to this community of like, you will be different hopefully than when you started.

Kaley Olson:

I love that. Good happens when you grow.

Kendra:

Good happens when you grow.

Kaley Olson:

OK, can we get a little practical? What is a month in the life of Circle 31 Book Club going to look like? And so I did just give that away. It's going to be one month.

Kendra:

Always starting on the first of the month and then ending the last day of the month.

Kaley Olson:

For a book.

Kendra:

That's great.

Melissa:

So one book will be like 30-ish days.

Kaley Olson:

One book in a month's time span. That's very doable. So can you explain what somebody would experience in that month?

Kendra:

Yes. So like I said, we'll have these discussion groups that are led by staff, which is awesome. And each one will be very tailored and specific to maybe something that you're struggling with in your life or maybe an issue that you want to tackle alongside other women. So you'll join that discussion group, and you'll be led with questions or resources that are motivating to help you take a step for change. And then you can read the book over the span of 30 days or 31 days or 29 — if you're in February, 28. But you read it in a span of a month; there isn't any homework. So it's not like you leave one day and you're like, "OK, now I have to fill out these five questions." It's truly read the book, [and] come check in with your discussion group. Maybe get something that'll help you take that step, or maybe share something that's on your heart.

Melissa:

Or ask questions.

Kendra:

Or ask questions. And then it's up to you to come back and check. But it's made for the busy woman because every woman is busy in their own way. And so we want this to be a place that is doable and works for you.

Kaley Olson:

I love that. Melissa, can I ask you our final question about book club?

Melissa:

Yes.

Kaley Olson:

What are you most excited about for Circle 31 Book Club?

Melissa:

The easy answer is everything that Kendra just said.

Kaley Olson:

I know.

Melissa:

But I don't think a book club like this exists anywhere else. If it does, I haven't found it. And I've been looking.

Kendra:

Yeah, you have been looking. That's true.

Melissa:

Yes. It's the motivation and support that I wish I'd had when I was feeling stuck or when I was feeling just anything. I mean, sometimes we want to celebrate a little bit more. It's not always about being stuck, but this is going to be like an army of women in it together, striving to get better ourselves. But also community is two way. It's not one way.

Kendra:

That's true.

Melissa:

It's also being a support to others who are in our Circle 31 Book Club community; they will become our Circle 31 Book Club friends.

Kaley Olson:

I love that.

Melissa:

And this isn't a passive stagnant book club. This is a book club with movement.

Kaley Olson:

I love that. It fires me up because as we wrap up today, going back full circle, like you said, Melissa, if you're feeling stuck, this is the place for you, and you tuned into this episode because for some reason you feel stuck in your life. But what gets you through being stuck? Being honest with yourself, having a desire to grow, community, being honest with others and God — I mean, we can't leave Him out of this, and He will not be left out of the Circle 31 Book Club because He's the foundation for every single thing that we do here at Proverbs, and at the end of the day, we are going to point you to Him. And so if you're listening to this, I know you're here because you've probably tried all the things but are missing out on one of the above.

You're missing out on being honest with yourself. You're missing out on that community. You're missing out on something because you keep landing and being stuck. And maybe what you're missing out is a big one. You really don't know the Lord and how He can help you, and we can lead you there. Maybe it's that you have the desire to grow but need to be led and championed through the process with friends that you can trust, who can hold you accountable. Circle 31 can be that place for you. Maybe you need permission to be honest with yourself. I hope you found that here today. And I know you'll find that time and again through the Circle 31 Book Club. And so I just have to say one more thing. Our podcast audience is an audience for Circle 31 Book Club because this audience shows up for every episode to hear biblical Truth for any girl in any season.

And a podcast listener is not somebody who is going to give 45 minutes of their time for an episode to just listen for funsies, right? That's a big deal to trade 45 minutes of your time. But you're listening to this on your own. I doubt people are listening to this with a group of friends around their phone or in their car. If you are, that's great, but that's not normal. And if you're listening to this podcast, The Proverbs 31 Ministries Podcast, you have a desire to grow. But get in community with Circle 31. Take it one step further, and join Circle 31. So, Kendra, will you share with our listeners how they can do that?

Kendra:

Yes. Listen ... our circle is not complete without you. So if you are on the fence, please join. But you can go to circle31.org, and you're going to see a button that says join the circle. And that's what you have to do. And then all of this information is provided for you in the show notes in case you need a reminder.

Kaley Olson:

That's so easy. And can you tell us when we'll find out what the first book we are reading is?

Kendra:

Yes.

Kaley Olson:

Because that's still a secret.

Kendra:

It's still a secret. I know. We like to just give things out randomly. April 1 or early April.

Kaley Olson:

It won't be an April Fools' joke.

Kendra:

It won't be April Fools' joke. You'll find early April is when the book is announced, and we have a feeling you're going to like it.

Melissa:

One month?

Kendra:

Yeah.

Kaley Olson:

I feel like [inaudible] like it too. I'm having to really bite my tongue right now because I know what it is, and I'm so pumped about it. I think it's going to be the best book to start out with. OK, so I'm just going to remind you one more time about the resource that I already mentioned called “Why Can't I Get Over This?”

This is a foundation for our conversation today, and this is a free guide you can get right now while you join Circle 31 Book Club, while you wait for the book to be announced. All of those are things you can do now, but there's not really anything happening right now until we know what the book is on April 1, and we actually start reading it on May 1.

Kendra:

On May 1. That's right. So there's time.

Kaley Olson:

There's so much time.

Kendra:

Don't worry. There's going to be some things going on in that community before the book.

Kaley Olson:

There's things happening in the community, but I want you to download that free guide so that you can work on getting unstuck while you wait to be able to meet all of your friends in the Circle 31 Book Club. So go to the show notes for today's episode. We have all the links there for you. And, friends, thank you so much for joining us today at Proverbs 31. We believe when you know the Truth and love the Truth, it changes everything. Melissa and Kendra, I love you guys. Thank you for your time.

Melissa:

Love you too. Thanks for having us.

Kaley Olson:

See you.