The Proverbs 31 Ministries Podcast

Meredith: Well, hello, friends. Thanks so much for joining us on the Proverbs 31 Ministries Podcast. At Proverbs 31, we want to help you know the truth and live the truth, because we know that when you do, it will change everything. I'm your host, Meredith Brock, and I'm joined here with my friend and co-host, Kaley Olson.

Kaley: Hi everyone. I expect everyone's pretty new around here. But one thing you should know is if you're listening right now, we started this podcast just for you. Whatever season you're in, whatever your age, background or stage of life, we pray that this is something that you look forward to listening to each month.

Meredith: That's right. We want to make sure that what you hear during your time with us challenges you, because we grow when we're challenged, and we want to grow. I want to go back to our tagline for just a second. You heard me mention, at the beginning of this podcast, that we believe that if you know the truth and you live the truth, it changes everything. That really is our goal for you. We want to help you know the truth of God's Word during our time together, and then discuss it, how we live out that truth in our individual seasons of life.

Kaley: Yeah. Today we're going to learn some truth straight from Proverbs 31. Not our ministry, but the actual passage of Scripture. One of our staff members, Lauren Oquist, has a really great teaching that I can't wait for us to hear, because I know it's going to have an impact on everyone listening. Lauren, welcome to the show.

Lauren: Hey, guys. I'm so excited to be here. Thanks for having me.

Meredith: Well, we're so excited that you're here, Lauren. But before we get into our teaching too far, I want the audience to get to know you a little bit better. First, tell us a little bit about what you do at Proverbs, besides the fact that Lauren is secretly judging and rolling her eyes at all of my grammar mistakes, y'all, because I am a mess. I don't believe in grammar, just so everyone knows.

Lauren: Which goes against everything I believe in, but I try not to take it too personally.

Meredith: I'm just thankful that you work here so that you can make me look better than I actually am.

Lauren: I do my best. I do what I can.

Meredith: Oh boy. Well, tell us a little bit about yourself and what you do here.

Lauren: Sure. I'm the content manager at Proverbs 31. That's a way of saying that I help write all the promotional materials we put out. So emails, copy for the website, for social media. Whenever we promote something new at the ministry, I help develop the marketing language for that. It's fun. It's a lot of fun.

Kaley: You make us sound really great.

Meredith: Really, really great. You do a great job at it. So I'm super thankful for you. I'm really excited to hear what you have for us today. I've heard a little preview of this, guys, and I promise you're going to want to listen all the way to the end, because there's some gold in here.
Lauren, what do you have to tell us today?

Lauren: Well, so just to start out, I accepted the job at Proverbs 31 Ministries probably around the fall of 2015. I remember wondering to myself, “Did I somehow imply to them that I was married and had kids? Did I fool someone without meaning to?” Because in no way did I consider myself to be a Proverbs 31 woman. I mean, I knew that God wanted me to be here. It was clear that I should move to Charlotte. But at the same time, I knew the audience here was, a good portion of it, was wives and mothers, and I am not either of those things. I mean, I'm single. I'm not just tax bracket single, like I haven't been on a date in a while single.

Kaley: That's all right.

Lauren: And I'm not saying that to advertise anything. What I'm saying is that accepting the job at Proverbs 31 Ministries made me feel like a hypocrite. I just felt a little disqualified, like I should be disqualified from the position. So, I'm a pastor's kid. I grew up in church. I've always been pretty familiar with Proverbs 31, and in my mind, it listed these perfect qualities for what a woman should be. So growing up, it was sort of a frustrating passage for me. If I ever came across it in Scripture, I would glaze over it. Because why would I read something if I didn't see a way to apply it to my life?

Kaley: Right.

Lauren: So it's this impossible standard. It was this impossible standard for me. This woman, whoever she is, if she's even real, it's like what can't she do? Right? She wakes up super early, she's making her own clothes, she owns property, and it also says that she doesn't eat the bread of idleness. So she doesn't eat carbs either.

Kaley: I would be so disqualified right there.

Lauren: Right. So not only that, but she's married, she's taking care of her kids, she's running a household. It made me wonder, “If I don't have either of those things, if I don't have a husband, if I don't have kids, does that disqualify me from this lofty standard of womanhood? If I'm not married, does that mean that I can't be a legitimate woman? Does that mean that I can't have all God has for me in this life?”

I think we all have this thing in our minds that would make our lives, quote unquote, “put together.” You know? It would make everything come together, and we would be the best versions of ourselves. I'm sure, anyone who's listening, can think of that one thing that you think you have to have before you feel put together, before you feel like you could be the Proverbs 31 woman. For some of us, it's getting married and having kids. We may know in our minds that a husband and kids won't complete us, but our heart, our desires, are telling us something different.

But if you read Proverbs 31 closely, one important thing to notice is that none of the skills that she has depends on her husband or her kids. Right? She has these skills because she exercises wisdom in everything that she's doing in her life. So the standards for the virtual wife are essentially the same standards that we can apply to be a virtuous woman, single or married.

I'm just going to give you guys a quick rundown, all the qualities we see in Proverbs 31:10-31. In verse 11, she's trustworthy. In verses 13, 17 and 27, she's a hard worker. In verses 14, 19, 22 and 24, she's resourceful. In verses 15 and 18, she makes good use of her time. In verse 16, good with money. In verse 20, she's generous. In verse 21, she thinks ahead. And of course, in verse 25, she's wise. Okay, so I'm just going to take this second to clarify something. I don't think it's only single people who struggle with this passage; I think that most women would struggle with the Proverbs 31 woman.

Meredith: Yeah, yeah.

Lauren: This is a really long list. Just for the sake of the argument, imagine there was like this alternate dimension Lauren, and she's married, and she has a tall husband and two beautiful kids and a dog that is well-behaved. I don't even think that she would feel like a Proverbs 31 woman. Right? I don't know if there's one thing on this list that I can say with confidence, “Yeah, I'm always trustworthy. I'm always a hard worker. I'm always good with my money.” You know? “I can laugh at the days to come.” I can never consistently say that that is a part of my life. So, one of the most important things to remember when we approach Proverbs 31 is that we can know that it's not a prescription for us to fulfill. It's a testimony of how God is shaping us into His image, into who He ultimately wants us to be.

Kaley: Oh, I love that.

Lauren: Yeah. We can look at Scripture and see all these women who were, by definition, not Proverbs 31 women. Rahab was a prostitute, Ruth was a widow from a pagan nation, the woman at the well was divorced five times. Mary was super young, Elizabeth was super old. If every woman in the Bible fulfilled these list items in Proverbs 31, their stories would be a lot less interesting, a lot less applicable. But none of them did, and that's why we can clearly see that God can use anybody. But there is one thing that they all had in common. If you look toward the end of the passage, in Proverbs 31:30, it says, "Charm is deceptive, and beauty is fleeting, but a woman who fears the Lord is to be praised."

Then, if we go back to Proverbs 1 ... If you remember Proverbs, it's all about how to exercise wisdom in day-to-day life. So Proverbs 1, verse 7, we find a similar declaration, and it says, “The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge.” In other words, fear of the Lord is what everything else stems from. Right? When I say fear the Lord, it doesn't mean that we are scared or we're terrified of the Lord. Think about a relationship between a child and its parent. I don't obey my dad because I'm scared of what my dad will do to me if I don't obey him. I obey my dad because I'm scared of disappointing him. I'm scared of letting him down because of how much I love him and respect him, and how much I want him to be pleased with me. So, to fear the Lord is to feel the weight of His holiness as you love and obey Him. This is what sets us apart from the world, is fear of the Lord.

See, when we commit our lives to Jesus, it's this moment of salvation. Right? Our hearts are regenerated. Regeneration is this one-time event where we all of a sudden go from the old to the new. We're a new creation in Christ. While salvation is something that happens in an instant, perfection does not happen in an instant. We'll never reach perfection until we reach heaven.

Kaley: Right.

Lauren: It's this gap between regeneration and perfection where people get frustrated. This process is called sanctification, and it's a slow journey toward God making us into who He ultimately has called us to be. Because our hearts are regenerated, ultimately now we do want to please God. Our ultimate desire at the end of the day, regardless of how much we fall short, is to please the Lord. Because of that, we can know that it's not because we're perfect that makes us Proverbs 31 women, it's because we're becoming perfect.

Kaley: Wow.

Lauren: If I listed every character trait that I one day aspired to have, I'd wind up with volumes of books. But without the fear of the Lord, none of these aspirations are going to ever come to fruition. That's because every good thing in my life, every good behavior, every good habit, every good character trait, everything possibly that could happen to me that's good, will be a direct result of my relationship with the Lord. It will be in direct proportion to how healthy my relationship with God is. How often am I spending time in His presence? How often am I praying and asking Him what He wants me to do? How often am I learning more about Him through Scripture?

So Proverbs 31, just as a reminder, it's not a job description for women, it's definitely not a shopping list for men, it's an example of the abundance that God will give us over time as we grow to know Him and to love Him more. So, as a single woman, I know that this is a good reminder that A), a husband and kids are not a prerequisite to receive all God has for me, and also, even though I fall short in so many areas, I am following God, and because of that I know that I'll grow and grow to know and love Him more, and in turn, look more like Him in my day-to-day life.

Kaley: Wow, Lauren. I don't know if it's hot in here because of all the sound equipment that we have or the teaching, but, man, that was really good.

Meredith: Really, really, really strong. I think every single woman, every single person, no matter what stage of life you're in, struggles with that idea of this perfect person that you're trying to become. If I can just get there, then I'll be her, or I'll be him. I think you said that it's a perfect qualities list, and that one thing that would make you put together if you could get it. I know, I'm married, I have two great kids, I do have a really well-behaved dog. I can tell you right now, I have that.

Lauren: Yeah, yeah.

Meredith: Where I think about, if I could just do this, then maybe I will be that godly woman, maybe I will be all that God created me to be. I love that you came to that place. Two things really, really jumped out at me, that just really struck me. It's not that laundry list.

Lauren: Yeah, yeah.

Meredith: It's really not a laundry list of, “Okay, am I trustworthy? I was a little bit yesterday so yep, I'm going to check that box. I'm good there.” “Did I work hard yesterday? Well, I took a nap so nope, not going to be able to check that box today.” It's not that. Instead, it all stems from that place of to fear the Lord.

Lauren: Yeah.

Meredith: Fearing the Lord, and really knowing what that means in your day-to-day, and how that translates into your actions. The other thing that really stuck out to me, that I thought was so good, is that being a Proverbs 31 woman, it's not a destination.

Lauren: That's absolutely right. Yeah.

Meredith: It's actually becoming perfect that makes you a Proverbs 31 woman. That is like such a profound idea. You know? It's not that you're going to reach the destination today, not even tomorrow, not in three years from now. The time that you will reach that destination is when you see Jesus face-to-face.

Lauren: Yeah, yeah.

Meredith: Instead, it's becoming that is being a Proverbs 31 woman. That's so profound, so profound.

Lauren: I think with social media, too, we think we see all these other women being, quote unquote, “Proverbs 31 women.”

Kaley: Oh gosh, yeah.

Lauren: And that's, I think, where that laundry list can turn against us. "Well, I see so-and-so's Instagram feed." Then it becomes more about becoming like a person than it is becoming like Jesus.

Kaley: Right, yeah.

Lauren: Because we're not trying to be like Miss Suzie Q over here, who goes to all the bake sales and is always on time to pick up her kids from school. We're looking at Jesus, we're paying attention to Him, and that's where all of these things ultimately come from.

Meredith: Right, absolutely. It's that fear of the Lord. And staying in such deep connection with Him that you live from the place of fear of the Lord, rather than living from a place of a laundry list of to-dos. It's a paradigm shift, in the way that we live, in the way that we think, and even in the way that we have relationships with others. Because it's so tempting when you see them, and you're like, “Oh my gosh, I definitely did not get my car washed this morning, that means I'm not a hard worker.” You know? And it has nothing to do with that, that list.

Kaley: Or you look at someone else in their journey and think about how they're doing so much better than you are in that area, or you're just ready to get to that next level or have that next thing. But with the social media world, once we reach one level, someone else comes out with a new post and there's something new that we now have to measure up to, and this new standard that we have to reach.

I love that you said that sanctification is a slow journey. In my notes I wrote, “I have permission to make progress.” Because I feel like we, too, today, we want to be that Proverbs 31 woman right now. Like I want it right now. It's not going to happen. It's a day-to-day process, and we really won't be that completed woman until we reach heaven one day and we do see perfection. Right now, I have permission to make progress, and I need to only look at what God wants to do with my life, not what He's doing in your life or in your life but my life right now.

Lauren: I think it's important to celebrate your progress, too. I read somewhere that in Jewish culture, the men would use this passage, Proverbs 31, as a song of praise to their wives and to the women in their life.

Kaley: Wow.

Lauren: So it was almost like they were proclaiming this over them. Like they were saying, “You are my Proverbs 31 woman.” Even though a lot of times we feel like, “That's just not going to be me, that's never going to be me,” I think that we can claim it. I think that we can label ourselves with that, because, ultimately, that is who we will be. You know?

Meredith: I think that is such a ... like speaking life over the people in your life.

Lauren: Absolutely. Absolutely.

Meredith: Even speaking life over yourself. I was with an author like a couple weeks ago, and this particular author is insecure about his abilities to write. He said, “You know what? When I sit down to write, I put on a particular pair of glasses. And I tell myself, when I'm wearing these glasses, I am a writer.” I think sometimes you just need to tell yourself, “You know what? I am becoming that Proverbs 31 woman. I am living as best I can in that deep relationship with the Lord. I'm in His Word, and so I fear the Lord. So I am that Proverbs 31 woman."

Lauren: And I know in my heart that this is what I want to do. In my heart I want to follow God. It's kind of like how the Apostle Paul says, “Why do I do the things that I don't want to do?” When we do those things, we know that it's not in alignment with that person that we are supposed to be. I think that, in and of itself, is a sign that we are on the right track.

Meredith: And at that place of humility, and brokenness before the Lord, in receiving His grace, so that you can give it to others and live in the place of grace. So good, Lauren. Thank you so much for joining us today. That was a really, really strong message, that I think I'm excited to hear what people learn from that message, and how they grow.

I would encourage any of you listening out there, grab that favorite quote, anything that you learned today, and share it on social media. Because I don't know about you, but sometimes I need permission to make progress, and sometimes I need someone to say, “It's okay that you're not there yet.” So encourage those friends around you. Post what you learned today, and we would love to see it on social media. I know I will be looking.

Kaley: Yeah. And you never know who needs that encouragement, as well. So that's a great idea, Meredith. Some of you might be wondering what Proverbs 31 Ministries is. If you're just joining us on the podcast, and you have just come across our ministry, well, now you know that it’s not just for the perfect married woman. We are here for everybody. If you go to our website at proverbs31.org, you'll see all the resources we have to offer, as well as ways for you to get connected to God's truth.

Meredith: One of the ways that we do that at Proverbs 31 is through our online Bible studies, our First 5 app, and our daily devotions. All of which are totally free. You can sign up for any of these and join us in any one of those platforms at proverbs31.org.

Kaley: Well, Meredith, I hate to do this, but it's time to say goodbye. So, everyone, thank you for joining us for today's podcast. We pray that you learn something new about God's Word today. At Proverbs 31, it's our goal to help you know that truth of God's Word, and live that truth every day, because it truly changes everything. See you next time.