The Proverbs 31 Ministries Podcast

Meredith Brock: Hi, friends. Thanks for tuning in to the Proverbs 31 Ministries Podcast, where we share biblical truth for any girl in any season. I'm your host, Meredith Brock, and I am here today with my co host, the lovely Shae Hill.

Shae Hill: Hey, Meredith. Guys, today's conversation is so good.

Whether you are like me and you grew up in church or you're a fairly new believer, chances are you've probably asked questions about the Holy Spirit. Maybe you found yourself saying, like, I totally understand God the Father, Jesus. I can wrap my head around that, but the Holy Spirit, I don't I don't really know about that. But, today, we have a really amazing guest, Margaret Feinberg, who shared such an impactful teaching on the Holy Spirit, not just how to experience the power of the Holy Spirit, but really, like, the church and biblical background of where the Holy Spirit came from. And I think you're gonna be surprised at how early in Scripture we find the Holy Spirit mentioned.

I really, really enjoyed it.

Meredith Brock: It was a great conversation for sure. I also wanna remind our listeners, if you enjoy this podcast or any of the many free resources that Proverbs 31 offers, I don't know if you guys know, but we offer free devotions, daily devotions to your inbox, the free First 5 app, and so many more things. We can do that only by the generosity of our financial partners. And so if you have been blessed by this ministry and you wanna make come alongside of us and make the same life impact that we are making here, we wanna invite you to give.

All you need to do is click the link in our show notes or go to proverbs31.org and click give. We would love for you to make the same impact we are making here at Proverbs 31 through our free biblical resources. Another way that you can support us here on this podcast is by leaving a rating and review wherever you listen to this podcast. Not only does it encourage someone else to listen, who might need it. You don't know who might need this podcast today and by rating it and reviewing it, you're helping get the word out.

But it also, I'm gonna be honest, it encourages our team. So thanks for encouraging us in what we do. So alright, friends. Let's dive in to today's episode.

Well, we are excited to welcome our friend, Margaret Feinberg, to the show today. Hi, Margaret.

Margaret Feinberg: Hello. What a joy and a delight to be with you.

Shae Hill: Margaret, we're so glad you're here. You are officially making your debut on The Proverbs 31 Podcast today.

So I'm gonna go ahead and introduce you to our listeners. Margaret, you are an author, a Bible teacher, speaker, a host of a podcast called The Joycast. But something I read about you is that you also love watching comedies, and we are all here for all things fun. So before we get started, would you please tell me and our listeners what your go to comedy movie is when you need a good laugh?

Margaret Feinberg: Oh, that is such a great question.

I would say anything that has to do with funny falling in love romantic is just my go. Like, make me laugh, make me wonder if they're gonna, like, fall in love even if I are we already know they will. We already know. Like, in in, like, scene two, you're like, oh, they don't like each other, so we know they're gonna fall in love. So anything like that is totally up my alley.

Shae Hill: I love that. That's amazing.

Meredith Brock: I love it. You wanna know what makes when you started answering that question, I was like, oh my gosh. Me and Margaret are the same.

And then you took a turn is what makes me laugh is when people fall. And I thought you were gonna say anytime people fall in a week.

Shae Hill: Like those falling videos on YouTube?

Meredith Brock: Man, guys, that gets me every time. Every time. I I get a good laugh out of that. But Margaret, you're here today to share a message with us based on your brand new book, The God You Need to Know: Experience the Holy Spirit's Power and Presence Today. I know I need that. So we are just really looking forward to hearing what God has laid on your heart.

So why don't you just take it away?

Margaret Feinberg: You know, trying to understand the Holy Spirit is something that I have been trying to do for as long as I can remember. I grew up with parents who came to know Jesus through the Jesus movement in the nineteen seventies and had experiences with the Spirit early on. But growing up, we moved around a ton and so we attended Southern Baptist churches, Methodist churches, Episcopal churches, non denominational churches, charismatic churches, and whatever I would ask about Holy Spirit, I would get wildly different answers. And all of them contain truth and all of them were beautiful, but all of them were so different.

And as I got into college, I, became a religion major focusing on New Testament studies at Wake Forest in North Carolina. And I remember that hunger and that longing to understand Holy Spirit. I was just like, oh. So so I actually took, a semester and just studied and I went into church history and I went deep and dug in and read all kinds of arguments about the role of the Holy Spirit and the activity today. And in the end, I think I was just, I was unclear.

And I remember just, I don't know if you've ever wanted something from God so much that you just wear yourself out trying to get it. But I was like, God, I wanna understand. I wanna know Holy Spirit. And I remember in the midst of that struggle and reading and studying and figuring out one night, I woke up in the middle of the night and I had a Bible passage in my mind and it was Joel two. And at that time I was like, I'm not sure where Joel is in the Old Testament.

And I had no idea what I was going to read. But I remember turning on my my light next to my bed, flipping open my Bible and I came on this passage on Joel 2:28 and it said, and it will come about after this that I will pour out my Spirit on all mankind, and your sons and daughters will prophesy. Your old men will dream dreams. Your young men will see visions. And even on the male and female servants, I will pour out my Spirit in those days.

And I was in holy awe. I I thought, wow, the Spirit of the living God has spoken to me. By what? By bringing up a Scripture, waking me up in the middle of the night with a Scripture on my mind that I didn't even know what it was. And I'll be honest, that had never happened before and that has never happened since.

But for me at that young college age, that was so meaningful. It was a sense of, like, when we cry out to Holy Spirit, when we are crying out and wanting to know the Holy Spirit wants to make the Spirit real. Holy Spirit is not trying to be shy or distant or far off, but longs to live in relationship with us and bring God's word alive in our hearts. But as I continued to kind of pursue the Holy Spirit, often in all these different churches and even in my studies, when I would ask about Holy Spirit, most people would point me to Acts 2. And I don't know if you guys have ever asked about Holy Spirit, but they're like, you gotta read the book of Acts and you really, you know, it comes alive starting in chapter two in that day of Pentecost.

And if you look at that passage, beginning in verse one, it says this, It says, when the day of Pentecost came, they were all together in one place. Whew. Let's just stop right there. Do you see it? All of a sudden, notice the details.

They were all together in one place. And so what we're seeing is that the Spirit is already on the move. Doing what? Fulfilling the prayer of Jesus with his disciples that they all would be one. And what happens next?

Suddenly, a sound like the blowing of a violent wind came from heaven and filled the whole house where they were sitting. And they saw what seemed to be tongues of fire that separated and came to rest on each of them. And they were filled with the Holy Spirit. And if you go on to read, what you'll discover is that Pentecost unfolds with this regalia of signs and wonders and unity and generosity that become markers of the early church. And so often growing up and even to this day when I ask about Holy Spirit, people send me to Acts 2 to understand the Spirit.

But there's only one teensy weensy problem. My everyday does not look like that. Maybe your everyday is an Acts two experience, but mine isn't. And what it's taken me a lifetime to figure out is that while Acts 2 is stunning and beautiful, that when it's plucked out without the rich context of the Old Testament, it can seem new or different or strange or unfamiliar. But when you start to look for Holy Spirit in the Old Testament, you find the Spirit of the living God all over the place.

And why it's taken me a lifetime to recognize and that I've written about and the God you need to know book and Bible study is that Acts two is not Holy Spirit's grand debut. Rather, it's a culmination of the Spirits presence and power since the beginning of time. I mean, if we just jump into Acts two, it's like showing up on your wedding day without the rich background of meeting, dating, courting, falling in love. You you wonder who is this? What is happening?

I don't get it. But when we start to understand how the Spirit has been working throughout the Old Testament, we arrive at Acts 2 and can't help but think, of course, it would happen this way. So I think for me, what I've realized is that part of the reasons that I miss so many of the mentions of Holy Spirit, and maybe some of you listeners have too, it's a matter of language. So the Hebrew word for Spirit is, and it can be translated breath, wind, air, or even angel. And appears almost 400 times in the Old Testament or the Hebrew text, But each time, translators had to make a decision.

And so depending on a translation that you may be using, if you look at another, you may have something translated as Spirit in one, and another version, it may be translated as wind. And so if you start to search for the Spirit in the Old Testament, there are many mentions, but sometimes they're just kinda tucked in. I don't know if you ever been to a doctor's office and you kinda find one of those old school Highlights magazines. Have you ever seen one of those? Well, they contain this really super fun page, and it's called hidden pictures, where you have to, like, find small images that are tucked into a larger drawing.

And so in this, like, eyeglasses might be tucked into the leaves of a tree or a drumstick might be used as a leg of a table. And sometimes looking for Holy Spirit in the Old Testament is like looking at one of those hidden pictures. We have to look extra close. And so I wanted to embody this concept in the cover design for the book and the Bible study. And so if you're looking at line online or go to the show notes, you'll see it.

But if you look at the cover, you're gonna see this beautiful flower arrangement. But But if you look a little closer, you're gonna find all these little objects tucked inside. And each one is tied to an image or story about Holy Spirit that's either in the book or bible study. You may see a handle of a sword or a piece of wood or a feather, and each little piece is meant to be a reminder that Holy Spirit's presence is deeply embedded in the Old Testament. And it's a reminder that the Spirit is in us and working all around us if we have eyes to see.

So how prominent is Holy Spirit in the Old Testament? Well, let me just stop right there. You may have noticed something as we're talking here, and that is I haven't been saying the Holy Spirit. And you may say, well, why not? Well, we wouldn't say I was talking to the Jesus today, or I had a conversation with the God today.

And so I refer to Holy Spirit as Holy Spirit because we're not talking to a, a, an, a kind of a thing. We are talking to a person, a person in the godhead, a person in the trinity. And so it's just a gentle reminder that this person, Holy Spirit, wants a relationship with us. And so how prominent is Holy Spirit in the Old Testament? Well, it only takes a few words into the opening of Scripture to find out.

Beginning in Genesis 1:1, it says, in the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth. Friends, this is the beginning of things before the beginning of things. And the Bible later reveals to us that all the members of the Trinity were present and they were engaged. And I like to imagine God the Father, God the Son and God the Spirit and this delightful choreographed dance as creation unfolds. Verse two.

Now the earth was formless and empty. Darkness was over the surface of the deep. In Hebrew, that phrase formless and empty is translated tohu wa vohu, and it speaks of the deep watery abyss. Throughout the Old Testament, large bodies of water were associated with chaos. I mean, in antiquity, large bodies of waters, they were the breeding grounds for fear and folklore, tales of sea monsters, rumors of Leviathan swallowing ships whole.

And yet, this is the scene where the Bible opens. It's dark and chaotic, full of uncertainty and the unknown. And yet that's precisely when the Spirit, the steps onto the stage. Verse two, and the Spirit of God, the roof Elohim was hovering over the waters. Some interpret or translate that this roof as merely as a mighty or a divine wind, but this is so much more.

This is the Spirit of the living God. Friends, rather than withdrawing, the Spirit draws near to the darkness. Rather than retreating, the Spirit advances into the mayhem. Rather than disappearing, the Spirit hovers over the uncertainty and the unknown. Why does this matter to you and me?

I don't know about you, but I have places in my life that are marked by uncertainty and the unknown that are deep and dark and chaotic. I think we all do. We are living in a world in which every day seems to be marked by more and more uncertainty. Yet it's in those places that the Spirit hovers. In Hebrew, the word often translated hovering is Merafet, and it's verb tense expresses this continuous ongoing action.

Some translators is brooding like what a bird does for her young. One rabbi even translates it fluttering. And this tells us that no matter how deep or dark or informed something may seem to us, the Spirit remains closer than our next breath. No matter what we we are facing, no matter what we're facing, we do not face it alone. Now just a little bible nerd moment in how this connects to Acts two.

Following the wind in Acts, which you've already learned, right, ruach can be translated Spirit or wind. What does the Holy Spirit do? Holy Spirit uses the image of fire shaped like a tongue. If you look at the text, you'll notice that the fire separates. What does it do?

It comes to rest on those gathered, almost as if it's hovering before settling. And so we can read that in Acts two and start to think, wait, of course, Holy Spirit has been hovering, coming to rest upon since the beginning of time. And friends, if you start to look for Holy Spirit in the Old Testament, you will find the Spirit in the lives of Joseph and Daniel and the building of the Tabernacle with Bezalel and Holyab in the lives of Ezekiel and David and so many more. And I can nerd out on these all day because I just love Scripture. But I have to say, ultimately, the goal is never to just gather more information on Holy Spirit, but to experience transformation, to be people who awaken to the reality that we are designed to live in a vibrant relationship with the Spirit, to experience the Spirit, our advocate, the paraclete, the helper, the counselor, who is as close as our next breath.

And so today, I just wanna give you three tactics, three tactics to awaken to a vibrant relationship with Holy Spirit. And the first is to stay alert to Holy Spirit's hovering. Psalm 139 says that God formed each of us with intentionality and care, knitting us together in the womb. God created humanity with such a diversity. I mean, look at the people you know.

We're different in how we think, learn, and process the world. There's such neurological diversity. And so it just kinda makes sense that the ways Holy Spirit helps, comforts, counsels, and strengthens it's gonna look a little different for each of us. And often what Holy Spirit uses is so deeply personal. Because remember, the Spirit of the living God knew us when we were but in the womb.

And so there are times you're gonna read a Bible passage that maybe you've read a dozen times before, but suddenly it means everything to you. Or maybe there's this phrase from a song or a worship song that you hear or someone says, and it may be inconsequential to others, but through the Spirit of the living God, those words can sustain you for months or years to come. Over the last couple years, I've been surveying my online community about how people experience Holy Spirit. It is it is awesome. I mean, just the diversity.

And so some of your listeners may resonate with one or more of these or you may even, like, have one that that's just very different, but some sense the Spirit's hovering through deep peace, that shalom. Others, when a Bible passage that just pops off the page and comes alive in their hearts. Still others said that they sense the Spirit through tears. Those tears that God saves and remembers. Still other, they describe sensing the Spirit through this thick piece or this warmth that's almost like liquid love that saturates them.

My friend Tara recently shared she had been through the season and I remember being in her life during that and it was just seven years of heartbreaking exhaustion as a caregiver. And yet she describes these moments when Holy Spirit's presence was so real. She describes it as almost like the Spirit was vibrating in her body and bringing healing. She only experienced it during those seven years. And when they ended, she hasn't experienced it since.

And how sweet of Spirit to meet her in that way. I know I haven't necessarily experienced the Spirit in all these ways, but I do trust the Holy Spirit knows exactly what people need and knows how to lavish them and to lavish you in God's love. And as the advocate and comforter, the Spirit understands how to navigate our loss and pain, the pain and the loss of others far better than I ever could. My friend Denise recently shared, she had been married for 42 years, and she lost her husband in March of last year. And on Mother's Day, she was home alone in that deep grief and she was looking out the window.

And there was this white dove and it landed in her backyard. Now Denise said she had lived in this house for thirty plus years and never seen a white dove before. And so she was a little skeptical. She said she called her neighbor and asked, do you see the white dove too? And the neighbor said, yeah.

Do you know that dove stayed all day? And she woke up the next morning and that dove was still there perched on a window sill outside the family room. And so curious about the bird's presence, she just prayed and she just said, God, why why did you send a white dove to me on Mother's Day? My first day as a widow on that particular day. And she sensed the Lord respond with such tenderness.

I sent the very best a white dove Holy Spirit to remind you that I will never leave you nor forsake you. Do you see that personal nature of Holy Spirit in Denise's life in Tara's life? Recently I was teaching at an event and I remember this 67 year old woman came up to me in tears after I'd shared that story about Denise. And she was like, I didn't know. Nobody told me my whole life that Holy Spirit would show up in that way.

She described her own mom dying and being at the funeral and coming out of the church and they were just ripped apart inside her and her sisters. And when they walked out the door of that church, there were three butterflies right overhead. And those three butterflies flew ahead of them, landed on their car as they got in and drove away, and then they flew off. And she said, nobody ever told me that that was Holy Spirit. That was the Spirit of the living god in my life.

And I said, yeah. Yeah. Do you not think that the God of all creation cannot use creation to remind us he is with us, he is with us, he is with us, and he will never forsake us. The second tactic, ask Holy Spirit one question a day. I learned this from my friend, Drake.

I mean, the beauty of Holy Spirit is is we often sometimes think of Holy Spirit as maybe lesser or shyer, and yet that is not the reality of the Godhead. I I think part of the reason is that sometimes in our hymns and our creeds, we list in order father, son, and Spirit, but that is not a numerical order. It is not sequential. They are all separate and one and equal. And you can talk to Jesus, you can talk to God, and you can talk to Holy Spirit.

And so my friend Drake said that the way that he engages in Holy Spirit and awakens his relationship is that he keeps a journal. And in it, he just writes one question for Holy Spirit each day. And the question might be something like, Holy Spirit, who am I? Holy Spirit, what's my purpose? Holy Spirit, who are you calling me to love on today?

Just one. And then throughout the day, he'll keep coming back to that question, that that conversation starter with Holy Spirit. Just asking those questions about purpose, identity, service. And as he comes back to it, he'll start to pay attention to how Holy Spirit might be answering that. And then that night, he'll or the next morning, he'll write down anything that happened.

And sometimes I'll ask that same question the next day and the next sometimes will change them out. But what he says is it changes the posture of his life to begin paying more attention to the work and the role and the presence of Holy Spirit. And so I thought, you know what? That sounds pretty easy. So I'm gonna try it.

And so I pulled out a journal and I started doing it. And in the last few months, my husband and I have been walking through a really tough season of personal challenges, difficult medical decisions, and struggles. And and so for weeks I've been asking the same question because it just hasn't been clear. And the question I've been asking Holy Spirit each day is Holy Spirit, will you order our steps? Ask the question, write it throughout the day.

And what I've seen over the last few weeks and months is that Holy Spirit is answering that. Sometimes through, you know, scheduling, sometimes through answers, sometimes through studying the Scripture and just keeping track. And by keeping track, I'm like, wow, Holy Spirit, you are alive. You are vibrant. You are wanting to to to respond to what our heart cries.

And it's a love and a delight in Holy Spirit that I've never had before. And so ask Holy Spirit one question a day. The third and final tactic, there are so many more in the God, you need to know book and Bible study. But but one more to awaken your relationship with Holy Spirit is to talk about Holy Spirit with others. Friends, there is something that happens that when we start talking about Holy Spirit in a community of believers, when we start telling the stories of how we sense Holy Spirit is prompting and leading and starting just to move in our lives, something starts to stir and awaken in us.

It is contagious. I've been doing this and just asking people just gently, have you have you noticed any promptings? Have you noticed any nudging of Holy Spirit? Where's Holy Spirit? Like bringing the Scripture alive?

Where's where's Holy Spirit working in your life just with other believers? And man, the stories that I hear, one of my friends told the story. She was at the hardware store and she was checking out. And and as she's checking out, she senses the Spirit, papa thought in her head, just to pray for this woman. And and so so she's just kinda praying and she checks out and she she leaves the store and and she's she has a snot pop in her head, go back and pray with the woman, ask to pray with the woman and tell her how much I love her and see her.

And my friend was like, she thought like what most of us do, that is the last thing that I ever want to do. That's weird. I don't know this woman. I don't know if she even believes in God. What?

And she's thinking, I don't want to. But then the picture, the Scripture that popped in her head was that from the Gospel of John, you know, my sheep know my voice. And so she's hesitant, but she turns around and she walks back into that hardware store. And the clerk looks at her and says, you you came back. Did you forget something?

And the woman said, no. But I just I just feel like like, I just wanna tell you, like, god loves you and he knows you and he sees you and he is with you. And then she's looking at this woman, like, the tears just start, like, rolling down this woman's face. And she's like, you came all the way back into the store just to tell me that. And she was like, yeah.

And then she says, can I can I just pray with you for a moment? And, she does. And she said, she was so grateful. She obeyed the prompting of the Spirit. And friends, I hear a story like that from a fellow believer, and I think I wanna go to the hardware store.

Like, that's what I hunger for. I long and I think so many of us do in our Spiritual lives to be those people who listen to the prompts of the Spirit, who wake into the nearness of God, who who are bringing in the love and the grace and the peace and the awareness of Christ and his love everywhere we go. And so as we engage in these ways to engage with the Holy Spirit, to be people who are stay alert to Holy Spirit's hovering, who ask Holy Spirit one question a day, and who talk about Holy Spirit with others. I believe that there is a work that Holy Spirit wants to do in all of our lives as we rise up as the children and the people of God who bring hope and healing to this world everywhere we go. Friends, this is the God we need to know.

Meredith Brock: So good, Margaret. I am so inspired. I think as you cast this vision of who the Holy Spirit is, you know, the picture of of thinking, I'd never really envisioned this idea of the chaotic waters and then onto the scene steps this presence, this person of Holy Spirit and it is power. It's not this, gentle or even, standoffish presence, you know, but it is power that steps in. And I don't know about, our listeners, but as you talk about this, I am inspired to to say, yes, yes, yeah, I want the Spirit filled life.

I want to experience what Margaret is talking about. And then I immediately have this thought right after I feel that and think it and I'm like, yeah, let's go get them. Holy Spirit, fill me up. Here I come. And then I automatically go, oh, but what if it's not really the Holy Spirit?

Maybe it's just because I'm in a in a mood today and that was me, not him. Or maybe this is just a coincidence, like that butterfly I saw was just a coincidence. That wasn't Holy Spirit. And so help us navigate the that skepticism that we feel in our hearts towards the Holy Spirit really speaking and moving in us because I know I've certainly experienced that before where I felt like, okay, I have so much peace right now. I know that's the Holy Spirit.

And then no kidding, thirty minutes later, I'm like, peace, what peace? I'm full of anxiety and and fear now. And so help us unpack that a little bit with the skepticism and knowing what is the Holy Spirit and what is just our frail human bodies.

Margaret Feinberg: That's such a great question. One of the people that I write about and The God You Need to Know is Gideon.

And one of the reasons that I love Gideon in the process of discernment is he is constantly asking God, like, are you sure? Are you sure? But I need you to this, but I need you to do that. I'm not I'm still not sure. I know you've called me to do this, but I'm still I'm just not sure.

And Gideon gives us this freedom to take our questions and our doubts and our fears back to God. Like, that that skepticism, like, God stands wide open to scoop you up, and it is fair to say, Holy Spirit, I need confirmation. If that was really you, show me. Show me in your Scripture. Show me, you know, through conversations with other godly believers.

Help confirm this. And so I cheer on that skepticism. I don't shy away from it. But I say lean into God in those places. Secondly, you know, in the book and study, I provide a number of guardrail questions.

The questions to reflect on in discernment. And so, you know, the things that the Spirit is working, they have a character. Remember, Holy Spirit is always reflecting the character of God. That's just the nature, of Holy Spirit. And so the things that Holy Spirit are nudging and prompting, number one, are always gonna align with Scripture and the character of God.

And if they don't, you chuck them far out back. Secondly, they are always going to lead you to love God and love others more. Holy Spirit isn't gonna lead you towards eating bonbons, you know, in bed and self indulge. You know, that that's just you know, there might be a day of rest.

But but it's not gonna be, let's make my life all about me. That that's not the work of the Spirit. He's always calling us out into the other, and to bring glory to God. Another characteristic that I love using is is I think discerning the Spirit is so important in community. You gotta do this among friends.

We gotta start talking about Holy Spirit because others are experiencing Holy Spirit, have different insights into Spirit, gifts, things that they're bringing to the table. And so one of the discernment questions is simply asking, does this align with the wise counsel in my life? And I think that as we sort through these and ask that question that you touched on so beautifully, you know, does this leave me with a sense of peace? And so if we don't have that sense of peace, it may be the reason to pause and to keep praying and to keep leaning in to Holy Spirit and the work of God to say, when is this time right? What are you saying to me?

But but I think bring that skepticism to God. He he he is not afraid. He he he didn't just listen to Gideon. He met Gideon. He carried Gideon through, and he will carry us through.

And I think there are times that we're gonna respond to little prompts in our lives. It happens to me all the time. Last week or a few it wasn't last week. It was a while ago, but I was at the pool, and I felt this little thought pop into my mind that was not my own and it said, you know, talk to the man in the lane next to you. And I looked over at this elderly man and I thought, I don't wanna do that.

Like, he's a stranger. That's weird. We're swimming. But you know what? You know, kindness is part of the character of God.

It's consistent with Scripture. My wife's counsel would say, yes. Be kind. It it left me with a sense of peace, little awkwardness for sure, but that sense of peace is why I struck up a conversation. And, honestly, I'll tell you, it was more like a nonversation.

I mean, we talked about sports teams that I didn't know. We talked about the weather. We talked about random things and literally nothing deep or meaningful. And I left that, and I thought, was that the Spirit? Maybe, maybe not.

Maybe maybe I just did it, but I didn't see any results. And I think at a certain level, we have to grow, like, comfortable with that. You know, there are things that Holy Spirit is we can't see. Like, did it make him feel seen that day? Did it make him feel like the pool was a great place to exercise?

Did it remind him that he wasn't alone? I I don't know. Was it was it an was it a process for me maybe to practice a muscle of quick obedience to the Spirit. I I don't know. But I think that even if I made a mistake, like, it's still good to show kindness in God's kingdom.

And I think one of the things that we have to remember is that there are times we're gonna step out and things that we think is a prompting for the Spirit and maybe it's not. But can I tell you, God is big enough to cover it? And how much better to be the person who starts growing in response to these promptings of the Spirit, you know, than the one who never obeys at all. And to recognize God's grace, you know, just as a child is learning to speak, you know, the parent sends the kid to to the kitchen to get a spoon and and they wander into the living room. Like, the parent isn't like, I can't believe you did that.

That's first of all, that's not the Spirit of God. But because the Spirit of God is always speaking in the divine language of love to motivate us towards Christ and Christ's word. But but but rather a a loving parent just like the Spirit of the living God would say, okay, you know, didn't go to the kitchen this time, but but maybe next time. And eventually as a parent, if you're raising up that kid, eventually that kid, as they learn language and learn to grow in this, will go to the kitchen and come back with that spoon or or what they were supposed to come back with. And and the delight is not in the perfection.

The delight is in the relationship. So Holy Spirit is craving and desiring strength in us, that hunger for that relationship, that we get to walk in step with the Spirit, be part of bringing in God's kingdom everywhere we go. And so be the courageous kid. Go for it. Go for it.

Meredith Brock: Margaret, this is so helpful. I feel like you're just giving so many different handles, to understand the Holy Spirit, our relationship with him, how to interact with him, all the things in pictures that many of us would not have drawn up ourselves. And and giving us I love that you said you have some guardrails in the book, because I think a lot of us, we need that. We're kind of afraid of this conversation. And so to have those guardrails, I think, helps us enter into the conversation feeling a little bit more safe than, like, okay, this is gonna get weird, you know?

And so I'm just so grateful you came on today. I'm gonna guess right now. I'm gonna guess that there's one of our listeners right now that right now the Holy Spirit is saying, you need to go get that book because I have been longing for a relationship with you, and you've been shutting me out. And so I just wanna encourage you, if you feel that stirring in your heart right now, why not? Why not go pick up the book and engage with it?

I'm gonna remind you of the title of it. It's The God You Need to Know. It'll be linked for you in our show notes, and we would love to invite you to go pick up that copy, and engage in a new fresh relationship with the Holy Spirit. I also wanted to tell our listeners about a little just a little announcement, and that is today, we discussed the importance of experiencing God's presence, and the most effective way to do that is by actually setting aside time for it. So we wanna encourage you.

You can do that in God's word, by downloading Proverbs 31 Ministries free First 5 app today, and set aside just five minutes a day, guys. That's all it takes to begin that relationship, setting aside time to be able to talk to the Holy Spirit, to know the Scripture, see the stories that Margaret unpacked for us today. And so go check it out. Again, it's the First 5 mobile app. It's available anywhere in every app store there is totally free and begin studying God's word today.

Shae Hill: Such a good conversation today. I'm so glad that you tuned in. I think we've covered it all. Friends here at Proverbs 31 Ministries, we believe when you know the truth and live the truth, it changes everything.