The Proverbs 31 Ministries Podcast

Kaley Olson:

Hi, friends. Welcome back to the Proverbs 31 Ministries podcast where we share a biblical truth for any girl in any season. I'm your host, Kaley Olson. I'm here with my friend, and my coworker, and my co-host, and kind of my neighbor.

Kendra Legrand:

That's true.

Kaley Olson:

All the things for today's episode, Kendra Legrand.

Kendra Legrand:

Kaley, what an introduction. It's great to be here.

Kaley Olson:

I wrote this down and I told Jana, our producer, that I was going to say it, and she's shaking her head. You know if Kendra's here, we're going to have a Legrand old time today.

Kendra Legrand:

That is the best. I know, a Legrand time, always. It's great.

Kaley Olson:

Jana just booed us audibly. But you know what? I am here for the corny jokes and I think our podcast audience kind of knows that by now.

Kendra Legrand:

That's right.

Kaley Olson:

But here's the deal, guys. Today's episode really is going to be great because we are going to hear from two fantastic women today, Lysa Terkeurst and Jennie Allen. What a powerhouse duo.

Kendra Legrand:

Truly.

Kaley Olson:

I mean, seriously.

Kendra Legrand:

Get your notebooks ready.

Kaley Olson:

On today's episode, you are going to hear a conversation that Lysa has with Jennie about her new book, Untangle Your Emotions. This is not only a hot book right now. Seriously, everybody was talking about this book.

Kendra Legrand:

It's all over.

Kaley Olson:

Everybody loves this book and for a very good reason. It's a right now kind of book, but Kendra, you have something equally as exciting to share, right?

Kendra Legrand:

I do. Okay. Not only is it being talked about everywhere, but it is about to be talked about in the Circle 31 Book Club, because it's our first book we're going to read together. We're excited.

Kaley Olson:

That is so exciting.

Kendra Legrand:

It truly is. Yes. On the back of the book, it says, "This book is worth thousands of dollars in counseling," and I just love that because I think it really does unearth some things and we're going to talk all about it in Circle 31.

Kaley Olson:

I love that about books these days.

Kendra Legrand:

I know.

Kaley Olson:

Honestly, I mean, you can use the Google machine to search for answers to the problems that you have-

Kendra Legrand:

Right, are having.

Kaley Olson:

Or questions that you have, but sometimes you need a book where somebody has gone before you and done the hard work and sacrificed so much like Jennie Allen has in Untangle Your Emotions. But Kendra, you just kind of blazed by that announcement.

Kendra Legrand:

I tend to do that.

Kaley Olson:

Very exciting announcement where you were like, yeah, this is going to be the very first book we read in the Circle 31 Book Club. And I'm like, hold on, time out, pause please. I can't do the rewind. Can you do the rewind sound?

There you go. If you're tuning into the show for the first time, we have to talk about what we talked about last week because if you didn't hear that, then you missed a really, really big announcement about Circle 31 Book Club, because we started a book club.

Kendra Legrand:

We did start a book club, and yes, we did start it, May 1st is when we actually start reading, it's coming down the pipeline.

Kaley Olson:

Coming down the pipeline. We've got less than a month or a month ish in between now and when we actually start reading. So Kendra, can you please catch everyone up to speed quickly?

Kendra Legrand:

Yes.

Kaley Olson:

What is Circle 31 Book Club by Proverbs 31 Ministries?

Kendra Legrand:

Listen, this is going to be the place that helps you answer the questions that you have because if you ever Googled Christian book about X and you're like, what resources out there about the problem I'm having, okay, Book Club is the place where we put all that together. It's for the person who's overwhelmed by options and is searching for biblical resources, we got you covered. It's for the woman who is longing to make progress spiritually and relationally, but isn't exactly sure where to start. We have community.

Kaley Olson:

There you go.

Kendra Legrand:

It's for the woman who's eager to have conversations that actually matter. We're going to take it beyond surface level, and so we're really excited to do that. And then it's for the woman who is limited in her time, but don't worry, we're going to have that worked out for you too. So that is what Circle 31 Book Club is in a nutshell.

Kaley Olson:

I'm so excited about Circle 31 Book Club. I think it's going to be so much fun, and I truly believe that Circle 31 Book Club is for our Proverbs 31 Ministries podcast audience.

Kendra Legrand:

I love that.

Kaley Olson:

I mean, seriously, friends, if you're listening to this, you don't tune in to 30, 45, sometimes 50 minute long episodes because you just want to do it for funsies and you have all the time to spare. Listen, I know you're busy. I know you're listening to this while you're folding your laundry, but if you listen to a podcast episode, specifically a podcast episode that's a Christian podcast, you're not listening to it because you just want to fill space. You listen to it because while you're folding your laundry or while you're headed to go pick your kids up or while you're on a walk, you want to be productive and you want to grow. This is who that podcast is for.

Kendra Legrand:

Truly.

Kaley Olson:

Yeah. And we only release two to three episodes a month. And you know what Kendra, everybody listens to these episodes on their own. And if you're already making an intentional choice to grow in your faith, to grow who you are as a person, to build your character in Christ, then Circle 31 Book Club is the missing piece in your life because you need to do that in community.

Kendra Legrand:

Right.

Kaley Olson:

And so as you're listening to this podcast episode, go ahead and go to the show notes and sign up for the Circle 31 Book Club because we want to see you in community. We want to see you with other women who also possess the desire to grow and tackle really hard things together. So joining Circle 31 is absolutely free. If you're ready to make even more progress in an area of your life, like untangling your emotions with a group of friends who get you, then join the Circle 31 Book Club for free, buy Jennie's book, and we'll see you in the space starting May 1st.

Kendra Legrand:

Okay, but listen, there is one thing to mention that's also pretty neat. Proverbs 31 may have talked to Jennie Allen and her team and helped create an exclusive version of Untangle Your Emotions.
Kaley Olson: It's a good deal.

Kendra Legrand:

Yes. And so there is some extra content in the Proverbs 31 special edition book that you can only get in our bookstore P31bookstore.com that I think you're going to love. And so I would say go purchase it from P31bookstore.com.

Kaley Olson:

I would say that too.

Kendra Legrand:

I mean, it's pretty great. It's been in the works. We've had a lot of people work on the content that's in there, so I think you're going to like it.

Kaley Olson:

Yes. I think you'll like it.

Kendra Legrand:

And this is in the show notes if you need it.

Kaley Olson:

Everything is linked for you in the show notes below. All right, friends, I cannot wait to hear what Lysa and Jennie talk about today, so let's go dive in.

Lysa Terkeurst:

Wow, what a joy to be here with you Jennie, because you're not only wonderful ministry partner, but you're a dear friend. We've known each other for a long, long time. A long time.

Jennie Allen:

I know. We've been doing this a while, Lysa.

Lysa Terkeurst:

We have. I'm very excited about your new book, Untangle Your Emotions, and I love the subtitle because you follow that all the way through the book and I love it. So it's Naming What You Feel and Knowing what To Do About It. And of course, in each chapter you're focusing on notice, name, feel, share, choose. And I love that, and I love the way they highlighted which one we're covering in which chapter. It's just really fantastic.

Jennie Allen:

That means a lot to me from you.

Lysa Terkeurst:

Okay, so we're going to start out and I'm going to ask you your least favorite question. Are you ready for this?

Jennie Allen:

Yeah.

Lysa Terkeurst:

Jennie, how does this make you feel?

Jennie Allen:

It is my least favorite question, but I will say I've gotten way more comfortable with it. So this question most often was asked to me by my counselor who was looking for a lot of feeling and I didn't feel it, and that was really hard for me, but I do feel better now. And so I would say today I feel really happy to be talking to my friend who I love, and I feel really grateful for this season that we're in right now. Our grown kids are nearby. You get that. It's fun. I feel like it's a good day.

Lysa Terkeurst:

That's awesome. So I'll do a check-in with you. How do I feel today? Today I feel excited about living in answered prayer and also a bit tired from probably packing my schedule a little too tight, which for me, when I pack my schedule a little too tight, I really do have to watch my emotions because that's one of the number one indicators that my emotions can get all tangled up when I'm tired.

Jennie Allen:

How does it come out, Lysa?

Lysa Terkeurst:

Oh, okay. Are you turning the interview on me?

Jennie Allen:

Yeah.

Lysa Terkeurst:

Okay. Here's how it comes out. I will get upset about something that I otherwise could normally keep in perspective. But I will get upset about something and I will attach it to something bigger. So in other words, it's not just about the thing that I'm upset about, I'll attach it that it has some deep meaning. And until I know why this is happening, when it's going to get better, how, if it's with someone else, how we're going to work together to make it better. Until we can have that depth of a conversation, my thoughts start to spiral and my thoughts get caught on a loop and I can't escape it. And suddenly it went from this little thing to suddenly I've made it a big thing that has deeper meaning and that needs a big conversation to process, when in reality, one little thing just needs to be changed and we don't really need all that attached depth and processing and big emotions.

Jennie Allen:

Oh yeah, that's really good. And a sign that you're really self-aware. So yay. For me-
Lysa Terkeurst: A sign that I need to get into my counselor's office.

Jennie Allen:

Right. So for me it is I get irritable about little things. It's similar, but I don't blow it up, I will blow up. And it's not always been the case for me, but that really has been the one lately in the way it shows itself that I'm working on.

Lysa Terkeurst:

I get it. I get it. Okay. So Jennie, what did you realize was going on in your own life? I know you said lately you've been recognizing that when you're tired, you blow up or whatever, and so many of us can relate to that. But what was going on in your own life that made you consider even writing a book on emotions?

Jennie Allen:

Well, I think it's helpful to first say that a lot of my dearest friends laughed when they heard I was writing a book about emotions because I'm not the best at this. So I was writing a book to my weakness and to really research and understand what it meant to embrace sadness and fear and worry because I only saw those as negative things that needed to be fixed and pushed away. And what's sad, and really a grief in my own life today is because I wasn't comfortable with those emotions in myself, I often would try to push them away in other people, and I would try to fix everybody instead of feel what they're feeling.

Which is amazing because in the work that I did, the Bible and science both will say the greatest road to healing our brain and our health and our emotional health especially, is to be with other people in their pain. So for you not to feel isolated in your pain, that actually does heal you. But I needed evidence that because I didn't believe it, I just felt like, what's the point? Why go back and revisit things from the past? Why sit around and sulk about something? Let's just get over it. I mean, I wrote, get Out of Your Head, you've read that. I was like, let's fix this problem. Quit thinking it, quit being cynical, be grateful. And all of that is possible and true. I still stand by that book, but that book was way more comfortable for me to live than this book.

This book was harder because I had been trained that emotions were dangerous and that they are harmful and they really can lead to a lot of negative impact in your life. And certainly that can be true, but that is not at the base of emotions, that is not the truth. That emotions are gifts from God and they're given to us to help us navigate a really mixed up world and to help us connect more deeply with the Lord and with each other. And so that's the goal of emotions. And once I understood that, I had to reframe my life around that, and I had to go, why am I so afraid of these? If they're good gifts that are given to me to work through and to walk through my life, then maybe I need to pay attention to them.

So it was a really transformative two years. I was in a small group with several other leaders, and so we were living this out together. And that made me a believer more than anything because for the first time, they were kind of forcing me to feel negative emotions about things, and I was watching myself heal, and I was moving from places of anxiety that I couldn't quite understand or mentally get out of my head about to places of freedom. And all of a sudden those triggers didn't cause anxiety in me anymore. So there really was a profound difference in my life that I believe this was worthy to give away to the world.

Lysa Terkeurst:

That's great. So was there something specific that you were struggling with that was kind of the catalyst to thinking about all of this?

Jennie Allen:

Yeah, so I was. I was struggling with my work actually, and I don't even write a lot about that in the book, but I'll be super vulnerable here. The real catalyst was just, I was very discouraged and I would say numb and checked out from my life. And so I was tired of work and I was tired of the pressure of work and I wanted to quit. And that was a pretty strong feeling and a regular feeling for me. And yet I did still feel called to it, so I kept going, but there was just always in the back of my mind, this desire to quit.

And when I did the work, so I was asked to join this little cohort of leaders and I really went in, we each kind of picked something that we knew needed attention in our lives. For me it was I want to enjoy work. I should enjoy work. I am doing what I'm made to do, and I really love it. I feel God's favor on it. I want to work through this. And so when I began that group, I remember sharing very vulnerably all of that. And really, I mean hitting the table and crying and being so angry and feeling like, what I felt like at the time was I had gone out, if you know this song, Oceans, I had gone out where feet may fail and it felt like my feet often failed and it felt like God was nowhere to be found a lot of the time. So I'm sharing that with tears, with anger, with I feel like He called me out here and where is He?

And after I shared, all my friends in the group, this was our first gathering we ever met, they began to correct me. They began to fix me. They began to fix my theology and say, God is with you always. You shouldn't feel that way because God is with you. And basically, Lysa, they did to me what I do to other people, and it felt terrible and I felt misunderstood and I wanted to push away and I felt angry. I felt like I regretted sharing all of that.

I knew the truth. It's not like I don't know the theology. I know the theology. I went to seminary. I know the truth and I believe the truth. On a very deep level I believe that God is always with me and always for me, but what I was experiencing was valid too, and it was a bid for connection with them. And praise God, we did have a counselor there with us and he interrupted and just said, "Okay, I want y'all to change from saying, I think to, I feel. Rather than telling Jennie what you think about what she just shared, I want you to tell her what you feel about what she shared."

And Lysa, I have chills thinking about it. It was the most profound 10 minutes of my life. They began to say things like, I feel sad that you felt so alone. I feel angry that you've been in this position and not been able to share it with anybody. I feel sad that we made you feel pushed away and that we used words that weren't helpful. All of a sudden I felt unbelievably safe. I mean in a minute, it all changed. So that was when I was like, okay, there is something to this. Mourn with those who mourn, there is something to that verse. There's something to actually being in feelings with other people that actually begins to heal your soul.

Lysa Terkeurst:

I don't know if you've ever felt this Jennie, but sometimes as a Christian leader, especially in a situation like you just described, where I'm with other leaders, I get a little, I'm a very vulnerable person, and so I'm willing to share, but I hold back being honest about my exact feelings because sometimes emotions can feel to me spiritually immature, and I just haven't matured to the point where I don't feel angry or I haven't matured to the point where I feel gratitude all the time, or I haven't matured to the point where I can better manage my disappointments and all of that.

And so my journey has been recognizing that it's not a sign of immaturity, spiritual immaturity. It's actually a sign of emotional wisdom and it's a sign of self-awareness. And I think self-awareness is a big precursor to self-control, which obviously is the fruit of the Spirit. So when I started processing my emotions that way, I recognized that I had some faulty belief systems about emotions, and it was hindering me from those deeper connections. Like what you just talked about, it was necessary for everyone to get vulnerable in the expression of what they felt, not necessarily vulnerable with all the details of their life, but the expression of what they were actually feeling it. And I know a big thing for you in this book is helping people name the emotion they felt.

Jennie Allen:

Yeah.

Lysa Terkeurst:

Now, I have a confession. When I was raising my kids, I look back and there is one thing, there's probably several things that I would change looking back now, but there's one big thing I would change. And that is I remember when my kids would express sadness, disappointment or something that smelled a little bit like ungratefulness to me, I wanted to do a pep rally and I wanted to say like, no, no, no, no, no, you're not sad. We have the joy of the Lord. No, no, no, no, no, you're not disappointed because look at all we have to be grateful for.

And I remember when one of my kids went to some intensive therapy because with my family story, when my marriage fell apart, there were ramifications for everyone in the family. And so one of my kids went to therapy and came home and just said, "Hey, Mom, I realized for the first time it is okay for me to say that I'm sad because I actually do feel sad." And I was able to have a moment with my daughter and just say, "I recognize that I did that, and to some extent I still do it and I'm going to really work on that."

Jennie Allen:

That's the magic. I mean, that magic right there, that's the hope. Because as people are reading this book so often what they realize is, wow, first I never felt permission in my home growing up either to feel that way. And so this is universal nearly. And then the next thing you think is, and I didn't let my kids feel sad or worried or angry. And so that is so normal. And I think what I've learned at this stage in life with older kids is the beauty and the depth of relationship that can come from owning mistakes and saying exactly what you just said, I want to work on that. And still my daughter will correct me. She's the most emotionally intelligent one in our home and my oldest one, and she'll just correct me and she'll be like, "Mom, you're trying to fix me."

And so I just think this is a messy road because we were not trained, we were conditioned from young ages to judge any negative emotion in ourselves, and therefore we judge it in the world. So there's a lot of grace here. I hope that one thing people feel when they read the book is just tremendous compassion.

Compassion for yourself as you go, man, I haven't ever felt my feelings in a healthy way, or I've felt them and they've led me off cliffs over and over again, and I want to learn how to handle them better. It really can speak to both ends of the spectrum because both ends of the spectrum, whether you've suppressed and concealed and controlled your emotion or you've been very loud and wild with your emotion, both can come from a place of unhealth where you just don't know what to do with it. I think oftentimes it's way later in life when we learn that. And so yeah, we get to go back and apologize.

That really is a beautiful story though. It's a sad story and I know why you feel like it's sad because I feel that same sadness. I wish I could go back, but I also believe our relationship is even closer because we talk about all these things now.

Lysa Terkeurst:

Yeah, I agree. So what are some signs that someone needs to read this book? I don't want to call them emotionally unhealthy, because honestly, I know that I need to study this, and I'm so thankful that you've written a book so that I don't feel like it's all pointed at me, but we're in this together. But what's a sign that someone can recognize in themselves that, hey, there's some emotional unhealth here and I need to tend to my emotions and reading this book would be a great thing for me to do right now?

Jennie Allen:

Well, let me speak to maybe some fears people might have first. So maybe you're someone that thinks I never show emotion, and that's okay, I'm not very emotional, and I would just argue that you are emotional, that God built you in his image and He is emotional. So let me just clear the deck of this. This actually is for any human, because all humans have emotions and all humans largely we have not been trained well about what to do with them.

Many of us have gone to therapy and it's fun. One of my friends wrote about the book, put it at the back of the book, "This is worth thousands of dollars of therapy." And it's true. And I'm a believer that every single person needs a counselor. At some point in your life, you need to be under the care of somebody helping you understand yourself in a deeper way because we are not good at understanding ourselves. We aren't. And so what a counselor or a third party can do is to help you see yourself more clearly, which Scripture is clear about. That we are supposed to look in a mirror and not just walk away, but to actually confess sin and to change. And so that is a spiritual practice to be aware of your weaknesses, to be aware of how you come across.

I always tell people, if you think you don't need this book, why don't you ask the people around you that are closest to you? That you live with your roommates or the people you're married to or your kids and say, do you feel like I'm an emotionally healthy person? And see what they say if they feel safe enough to tell you the truth. And I mean, that's one way to find out, do I need to grow in this area? And I think we all need to keep growing in this area.

For the rest of my life, I just wrote a book on emotions and for the rest of my life, I will be getting better at this. It is not something that you ever arrive somewhere because you have new emotions and you have new things that bring out other emotions. And so rather than fear it or feel like we've got to accomplish something or arrive somewhere, I think a better way is what I wanted to do was provide a guide for your journey. You are on an emotional journey, every single person. And what I wanted to do was give you handles.

I'd read so many books in my research and I appreciate them all. It's a lot of counselors and there's a lot of feelings and there's a lot of, but I was turned off by it as a fixer because I was like, I just want somebody to tell me what to do. And I know they probably all would judge that, but that's what I needed. And so that's what I wrote. And so for me it was like, let me just give you some simple handles. To notice, let me teach you how to notice what you're feeling because you may not know. Or you may say, oh, I feel all the time, I feel all this. But you're actually never slowing down to put a word to it and to actually share it and to feel it and to choose what to do with it.

So it's a healthy process of here's what you do when you feel a little anxious and you don't know why. You pause. Before you come inside your house and snap at your kids, you take a minute and you notice what you're feeling and you consider why you're feeling it, and you give it a name and you feel it and you share it with the Lord. And then you walk in and you're going to have a whole different experience on the other side of that door just because of that two minute exercise you did in the car. That's my hope is that we would be able to all universally grow in this area and to quit demonizing negative emotions. I think if that was a takeaway, I mean I hope pastors read this, I hope leaders of churches read this because I don't think we have a good theology of emotions. And my hope is this gives people language and a new category.

Because what I did was I took the Bible and I looked at God the Father, the Son, the Holy Spirit, and you can't deny. They felt all of these emotions and they felt them pretty intensely and weren't afraid to show them. So I do think a big shift has to happen.

Lysa Terkeurst:

I think that's great. I think for me, there's a couple of tale tell signs that I need to do exactly what you're talking about. I need to take a pause. And sometimes I like to call them holy pauses because I need some space between what I'm feeling and how I react. And if I can give myself just a little bit of space, then I'm able to better understand what my emotion is doing. Because sometimes my emotions, I feel like are a driving force for me to have reactions that I may regret later, or that really were just out of some intensity that if I can just have a little bit of a pause, the intensity quiets down so I can have a little bit better reaction.

And so I think for me, when I recognize this, when I start personalizing what other people are saying, that's where I know I'm like, oh, I need to pause and not immediately get defensive of like, well, I didn't say that, or what? What are you talking about? I'm not defensive. I don't personalize. And my kids, if they're listening to this right now, they're going to be laughing because they want to inform me of something, and then I want to personalize it and immediately get defensive. And that's where I know, wow, this is a little space that I need a holy pause, and maybe I need to ask myself some questions, just like you were saying. My counselor Jim Kress often encourages me get curious, not furious.

Jennie Allen:

That's good.

Lysa Terkeurst:

And so instead of immediately getting furious about something that triggers a strong emotion in me, if I start asking questions and here's some good questions to ask, help me understand or can you clarify? And those kinds of things really help me.

What are some of the favorite tools that you teach in the book that you feel like will be those practical pathways? Or like you said, you want this book to guide us into healthier processing of our emotions. So what are some of your favorite practical things to do?

Jennie Allen:

There's several in the book, and I hope it feels insanely practical, especially the second half of the book. So the first thing is just to understand the five steps. The first step is to notice, and that begins really simply, are you okay? Are you not okay?

And then the second one is to name it. And in the book I talk about different feelings and layout, sadness, four main feelings, and every single book had a different number, but I liked four because I could remember four, sad, afraid, happy and angry. And so under each of those in the name chapter is a list by varying intensity of more specific words to choose from for your feelings, because sometimes I just need a guide. I just need a word. I go, okay, that's the one I feel. Right?

And to really narrow it down because you could be feeling disappointment over not being included in a friendship gathering, or you could be grieving a loved one that you've lost two years ago and it's coming back up again. So not just saying sad. Sad, it could be either of those, disappointment or grief. So really narrowing down, and I have a lot of those words and tools in the book.

And then the next step is to feel it. And this was a hard one for me because what do you do? How do you even do that? And so just to take a minute, to take a beat and to go, okay, I am not going to feel every feeling when it comes at me, but there's going to be times where I choose it's time. I need to work through this. I need to feel this. And it can be as simple as turning up a worship song in your car or laying outside in your backyard or just doing something where you can be alone and to actually feel it.

And that can scare people. I know that. But I promise you that step is going to bring you that connection with the Lord and ultimately in the next step with other people, which is to share it. To share it with somebody, and not to share every feeling you feel. It could be a mood. I mean, it'll pass fast, but if it's one that has lingered more than a day or two, it's time to share it. You need to tell one of your friends what's going on, and if it's an extreme emotion that you're feeling of just today, one of my best friends called me and I pick up and I was like, "Hey." And she's weeping. I mean, she's bawling, and I'm so in awe of that, that she just called me in the middle of a cry, right? That's so brave. But that sharing is she knows that that brings healing for her. And so she's not afraid to do it. And so we share it.

And then lastly, we make a decision and we choose what to do with it. And that isn't always simple. For many people this journey for my husband, I talk about his story in it, it might be that you're in a point of clinical depression or anxiety and you really need help. You need medicine or a doctor, you need a counselor. You need real help. And so it's important that you take that step of choosing. You know what? This has become a stronghold in my life. This is an emotion that has moved from something I feel to something that's controlling me.

And it's okay, this happens. This happens because of our chemistry. This happens because of suffering over a long period of time. This happens because the world is broken, but we need to get help. And so choosing what to do with it can be as simple as making a doctor's appointment. Or it could be choosing not to yell, just like you were talking about, not to react or overreact, but to go, I'm going to feel this and I'm going to share it in a vulnerable way.

And a good example of this is if you have a relationship where you're really close and you get mad at someone, but it's really coming from something in your childhood where you felt the same way, you felt trapped, you felt like you had no control over the situation, and you say to your friend or to your spouse, instead of reacting, you say, this is reminding me of a feeling I felt when I was 12, and I know you're not trying to make me feel this way, but man, it's coming up strong right now. Can I have a little time to process? All of a sudden, you just switched their reaction to you into one of compassion.

But you have to be self-aware enough to notice that, and that process can help you do that. And the more you practice that process and those simple steps, the easier they become to where you can do them more quickly in your mind and your body. You can notice and name and feel and share and choose in shorter amounts of time, but it is like a muscle. You have to kind of practice it and grow in it.

Lysa Terkeurst:

That's so good. That helps me so much. And I love the fact that it's memorable. So now I'll think about this, and throughout the book, you have so much good advice, but one of my favorite things about you, Jennie, is it is practical, it is memorable, and it's personal. And so for all those reasons, I think that everyone who reads this book is going to really have some solid takeaways. And it's not going to be a book that you just read, but it really is going to be a message that we sit with, that we apply to our life and one that we return to. I do think this is going to be one of those evergreen books. It's like, wow, I need to pick that book up and I need to read it again.

So Jennie, thank you so much for all the work, all the personal work that you did in order to really be able to live this message in such a beautiful way. Thank you for your honesty, that you still have pitfalls and times that you don't get it right, because that gives us hope for those of us who recognize we're not going to get this right all the time either. And for all those reasons, thank you. This is a treasure. You are a treasure. I'm so grateful for you.

Jennie Allen:

Thank you for having me.

Kaley Olson:

Okay, Kendra, I could listen to those two talk forever.

Kendra Legrand:

Oh, the notebook is full. The highlighter was moving.

Kaley Olson:

I know. And honestly, they shared so much wisdom, we don't even really have the space to react to it like we typically would in an episode wrap up.

Kendra Legrand:

We can react to Circle 31 Book Club.

Kaley Olson:

You can react to in Circle 31 Book Club. What a plug there.

Kendra Legrand:

Thank you.

Kaley Olson:

That's amazing. But like I said, guys, this is what I believe about our podcast audience. You're listening to this because you desire to grow, but don't do this alone. Don't listen to an episode on untangling your emotions and think, ah, I've got it from here. We're all Gucci now. Is that a thing? Do people still say that?

Kendra Legrand:

I don't think people still say that.

Kaley Olson:

I think I just aged myself. You know what? That's totally fine. You're not all-

Kendra Legrand:

I love it.

Kaley Olson:

It's okay to not all be good. I think you can join the Circle 31 Book Club and not have it all together.

Kendra Legrand:

Right.

Kaley Olson:

But you know what? You can get it together a little bit more in community through the Circle 31 Book Club. So your best next step is to buy the book and read it with us because our circle wouldn't be complete without you.

Kendra Legrand:

Without you. It's so true, everybody. It's so true. And for everyone listening, I don't want to start reading this book without you. And so if today's episode fired you up, or maybe you want to dig in a little deeper or maybe you even have some questions about what was talked about, please join me and a few other people in Circle 31 Book Club by going to Circle31.org and clicking join a circle. We would love to have you, and don't forget to purchase your exclusive copy because that's pretty neat to have on your bookshelf. I'd do so.

Kaley Olson:

I agree. Could not agree more. All right, friends, thank you so much for joining us today at Proverbs 31 Ministries. We believe when you know the truth and live the truth, it changes everything.