The Proverbs 31 Ministries Podcast

Meredith Brock:
Hi, everyone. Thanks for tuning in to The Proverbs 31 Ministries Podcast, where we share biblical Truth for any girl in any season. I'm your host, Meredith Brock, and I am here with my co-host, Kaley Olson.

Kaley Olson:
Hey, Meredith. Well, we just wrapped up a great teaching with Christine Caine — the Christine Caine — who I'm surprised we haven't had on the show before now because she's amazing.

Meredith Brock:
We love her so much.

Kaley Olson:
Always brings such an incredible message. And you know what? I'm not going to give away any of it. I'm just going to tell you this: She teaches on the second-shortest verse in the Bible, which you might be surprised to hear. And that's all I'm going to say.

Meredith Brock:
That's right.

Kaley Olson:
Is that ambiguous enough?

Meredith Brock:
I think it's great.

Kaley Olson:
I think it's great.

Meredith Brock:
I just want everybody else to know, too, that I couldn't take notes fast enough.

Kaley Olson:
Right. Yeah.

Meredith Brock:
So you're going to walk away from this teaching with more biblical knowledge but some really practical knowledge —

Kaley Olson:
Yeah, for sure.

Meredith Brock:
— to not look back.

Kaley Olson:
Yes.

Meredith Brock:
So with that being said, I want to make sure that before we head into that conversation, I point you in the right direction for you to be able to get some links to some things that I think you're going to want to know about. So head over to our show notes today, and we've linked both a link to Christine's new book, Don't Look Back, and a free resource you can download to help you process and apply what you've heard today. And [we have] a link to subscribe to our monthly Podcast Insider newsletter that Kaley writes, where you'll get all kinds of additional content, get podcast news before anyone else does, and get links to some of our other free favorite resources we don't want you to miss out on.

Kaley Olson:
Yeah. It's kind of like you're in the club.

Meredith Brock:
Yes.

Kaley Olson:
You get all the news first.

Meredith Brock:
Mm-hmm.

Kaley Olson:
It's great. All right, friends. Enough from us. Let's go hear from our friend Christine Caine.

All right, friends, we are here with our longtime friend Christine Caine. Welcome to the show, Chris.

Christine Caine:
Guys, I'm so pumped. I feel like I'm with family right now.

Meredith Brock:
Oh, we feel the same. It is so good to have you here. For those of you listening who don't know who Chris is, I don't know where you've been living — under a rock somewhere — but Christine is a speaker, and she's an advocate; she is an activist, a bestselling author. She and her husband, Nick, founded the anti-human trafficking organization called A21. They also founded Propel Women, an initiative that is dedicated to coming alongside women all over the globe to activate their purpose.

Kaley Olson:
That's amazing.

Meredith Brock:
Christine speaks all over the world. It is such an honor to have you on the show today, Christine, because not only do you do all of those things but, like you said, you're also a longtime friend of Proverbs 31 Ministries. We love getting to learn from you and hear your passion for God's Word. And just thanks for being here.

Kaley Olson:
Yeah.

Meredith Brock:
We're excited.

Kaley Olson:
I am so excited — not only for her message but also for her accent and her energy.

Meredith Brock:
Yes.

Kaley Olson:
Because it is unparalleled, Christine.

Christine Caine:
What do you mean, an accent? This is how the queen wishes she spoke English.

Kaley Olson:
That's true. That's true.

Meredith Brock:
I believe it.

Kaley Olson:
Well, Meredith and I are so excited to hear from you today to learn more about your book Don't Look Back because I think it'll really meet listeners where they are — maybe stuck in the past, or maybe when things were better or more simple, but also deeply desiring change and not knowing how to move on. I don't know anybody who can't resonate with all of those feelings.

Meredith Brock:
That's right.

Kaley Olson:
And so we can't wait for you to share more and encourage our listeners with where they're at in life right now. And so, with that, Christine, we will turn it over to you.

Christine Caine:
Thanks so much, Meredith and Kaley. Look, I just want to say upfront: It's my honor to be with you all. I love Proverbs 31. I love the ministry. And I'm pumped because I'm fired up about this message … because I think, just like you said there in the introduction, there's not one of us who isn't stuck in some area of our life and who doesn't need to move forward. And I would say the last three years, unless you've sort of been living on Mars, have probably been quite tumultuous for all of us. And we find ourselves wanting to go back, wishing things were back to normal in some way, shape or form.

But the purpose and the promise and the provision of God is always forward. I think Jesus is always beckoning us forward to Him. And I remember just even when I first was starting to get the idea for the book Don't Look Back … I want to start here because I was meditating on a passage of Scripture from [Luke] 17. And this was right in the midst of … Well, this could be actually, literally any day on the earth. There were a lot of natural disasters. The war had broken out in Ukraine. And then there was just so much political instability and moral instability and social instability. The world just seemed like it was burning around us.

And in my Bible reading, I got to Luke 17. I want to read this passage of Scripture. It's a bit lengthy, but bear with me because I think there are some great principles from this that will help us all. Jesus had just finished ... He came into a group of Pharisees. And the Bible says, "When he was asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come," in Luke 17, "he answered them, 'The kingdom of God is not coming with something observable; no one will say, "See here!” or “There!" For you see, the kingdom of God is in your midst'" (Luke 17:20-21, CSB). And I think even just those couple of verses there really struck me at the time because right now everyone's thinking, Is the world burning down? Is this the end of the world? What's happening? I think that relates to a lot of us going, It just seems like everything around us, as we once knew it, is burning down.

And Jesus goes on to say [this starting] in verse 22: "Then he told the disciples, 'The days are coming when you will long to see one of the days of the Son of Man, but you won't see it. They will say to you, "See there!” or “See here!" Don't follow or run after them. For as the lightning flashes from horizon to horizon and lights up the sky, so the Son of Man will be in his day. But first it is necessary that he suffer many things and be rejected by this generation. Just as it was in the days of Noah, so it will be in the days of the Son of Man: People went on eating, drinking, marrying and being given in marriage until the day Noah boarded the ark, and the flood came and destroyed them all. It will be the same as it was in the days of Lot: People went on eating, drinking, buying, selling, planting, building. But on the day Lot left Sodom, fire and sulfur rained from heaven and destroyed them all'" (Luke 17:22-29, CSB).

I bet anyone listening to this podcast right now is going, What did I tune in to? [Laughter.] We've got Noah, we've got a flood, we've got Sodom and Gomorrah burning … You're like, Oh, my word. But anyway, there's hope coming. Please stick with me.

He goes on. It goes, "It will be like that on the day the Son of Man is revealed. On that day, a man on the housetop, whose belongings are in the house, must not come down to get them. Likewise the man who is in the field must not turn back. Remember Lot's wife! Whoever tries to make his life secure will lose it, and whoever loses his life will preserve it. I tell you, on that night two will be in one bed; one will be taken and the other will be left'" (Luke 17:30-34, CSB).

And I always tell my husband, "I am not going to be the one who’s left behind. I'm telling you."
“‘Two women will be grinding grain together; one will be taken and the other left.’ ‘Where, Lord?' they asked him. He said to them, 'Where the corpse is, there also the vultures will be gathered'" (Luke 17:35-37, CSB).

There are a lot of words there, and that's a powerful piece of Scripture. And so, of course, here we are talking about the text, talking about the coming of the Kingdom, and it deals with the end times.

Essentially, it's talking about the twofold nature of God's Kingdom.

The already, the realized, nature of God's Kingdom is that Jesus is here, the fulfillment of Old Testament promises. God's Kingdom has already arrived in Jesus.

But the truth is there's also the not-yet, the future, dimension of God's Kingdom. And so the fact is: We all know we're not there yet. There is so much pain, so much trauma, so much drama, so much suffering, so much grief, so much loss, so much hurt, on the earth. There's not one of us who is exempt from that.

So Jesus, in this text, is talking about the Kingdom that has been realized in Him, but it's not yet fully realized, and it won't be until He comes back and there's a new heaven and a new earth. And there'll be no more tears and no more suffering and no more death and no more pain (Revelation 21:4). And it's a day we all long for. But the issue is: In the midst of this huge text that just relates to us so much in this day and this hour of just so much pain and loss, He drops in three little words. It seems a bit random. He just goes "Remember Lot's wife!" in verse 32 (CSB).

And I just need to throw an aside in here: For those of you who are Bible-trivia nuts, that is actually the second-shortest verse in the Bible. It's just three words. The shortest verse, of course, is, "Jesus wept" (John 11:35, CSB). The second-shortest verse is, "Remember Lot's wife!" (Luke 17:32, CSB).

Now, as I was reading this, this is what sparked the entire book for me because the fact is that I've been doing women's ministry for 3.5 decades, 35 years. And I've heard a lot of messages in my life about a lot of women. There are about 170 women who are in some way, shape or form alluded to in Scripture. Somewhere along the line, there's reference of them from Genesis through to Revelation. But there is only one woman, out of 170 women, who Jesus ever told us to “remember.” Now, that is what got my attention — that in the midst of a text about the world ending, Jesus is saying, "Remember Lot's wife!”

And then I was thinking to myself, In 35 years of women's ministry, I've never heard a sermon on Lot's wife. I've never really thought about Lot's wife. And I've certainly never spoken or taught about Lot's wife. And I thought, Isn't it amazing? Jesus' actual words, His red-letter words that we don't have a whole lot of in Scripture ... If He's going to give [her] three words, that much real estate, out of all of the recorded words of the Savior that we have, I thought, I need to pay attention. If Jesus told me to remember Lot's wife, why have I never remembered her? Why have I never thought about her? And why would there be only one woman out of 170 who He would tell me to remember?

Now, if I was Eve, I would be a little bit ticked off. I'm like, What do you mean, “Remember Lot's wife”? I was first. I came out of a rib. I've been blamed for all the problems of humanity for all of history. What about me?

Or if I was Sarah, I'd be thinking, Man, I popped out a kid at 90 without an epidural. What do you mean, “Remember Lot's wife”? What about remembering me?

Or Deborah: I was the first female judge of Israel. Why don't you remember me?

Or Esther could say, I stopped a Jewish genocide. Why not remember me?
And certainly, let me just say, girls, if I was [Jesus’] mother, I would be like, What do You mean, “Lot's wife”? I birthed You in a stable. Seriously.

[Laughter.] But what that did, of course … All jokes aside, I started to think there must be something really serious about Jesus, while He is talking about the end of the world, talking about a woman who we very rarely remember, a woman whose name we don't even know. She's just Lot's wife. Well, what a name. We don't even know what her ... Mrs. Lot. I don't know. I don't even know what her name is.

So of course, then I go back to Genesis, where we see the only recording about Lot's wife — because I'm thinking, Jesus, if you told me in the New Testament that when the world's burning down, I need to remember Lot's wife, then I need to know something about this woman because I need to know what I need to remember about her.

And then, of course, she only appears on the pages of Scripture long enough to disappear. She's got the shortest biography in history, in Genesis 13. If you remember, in Genesis 13:12-13, it says, "Abram settled in the land of Canaan, while Lot settled among the cities of the valley and moved his tent as far as Sodom. Now the men of Sodom were wicked, great sinners against the Lᴏʀᴅ" (ESV).

So when Abram and Lot separated, Lot pitched a tent right there on the edge of Sodom. And that place was a wicked place. The people were living contrary to God. Now oftentimes, of course, when we talk about Sodom and Gomorrah, we instantly are thinking [of] sexual immorality, and of course, that is a big part of it. But I think it's always fascinating, and it's important for us to know, that in Ezekiel 16:49-50, it actually tells us what the full sin of Sodom was. And sexual immorality is a part of it, but there's more to it. It says in Ezekiel 16:49-50, "Now this was the iniquity of your sister Sodom: She and her daughters had pride, plenty of food, and comfortable security, but didn't support the poor and the needy. They were haughty and did detestable acts before me, so I removed them when I saw this" (CSB).

And you know, girls, it was fascinating to me when I read that — because, of course, I always associated just sexual immorality with Sodom and Gomorrah. And our world is out of control, so I thought, No wonder the Lord burnt it all down. But then when I looked at things like pride, plenty of food, comfortable security, neglecting the needs of the poor and the needy, I thought, That is so much of the world today. And no wonder the Lord is done. When we are looking at all of the things that have been shaken around the world, and within the Church, we see it everywhere. There has been such a shaking, and I think that the Lord's like, I'm done. I'm done with pride, plenty of food, comfortable security, and neglecting the very purpose I blessed you [with.] And I gave you that stuff to help those who are less fortunate and to help the vulnerable and the marginalized and the poor and the needy, and also to live righteous, holy, godly lives.
And so then when I look at the world and I look at the political instability and the social instability and the environmental chaos and the moral chaos and the economic chaos and wars and famines and natural disasters and disease and human trafficking and shootings and crime and violence and death and grief and just so much pain and suffering … I'm like, Wow. Wow. When all of us, and anyone listening to this podcast right now, feel a sense of disorientation and a sense of "What is happening to the world?" I think a part of that, of course — a huge part — is sin [in] the world. But part of that is the Lord going, I'm done. I'm done with how things are. And I need My Church to rise up in this hour and actually be the Church and salt and light in the world (Matthew 5:13-16).

So, of course, in the midst of that, God's done with Sodom and Gomorrah. It's burning down. Two angels in Genesis 19 come to rescue Lot and his family. And in Genesis 19:17, it says then as they brought them out (so it's Lot, his wife, and their two daughters), the angels say, "Escape for your life. Do not look back or stop anywhere in the valley. Escape to the hills, lest you be swept away" (ESV).

So you imagine it: A whole city is burning down. God sends an angel of the Lord to literally take them by the hand and lead them out of what's burning. And He was leading them out because He had a purpose for them — He had a promise for them, He had a future for them, and He had provision for them in the future. And there was only one stipulation: While everything as you know it is burning down, don't look back. Hold on to the hand of the angel of the Lord, and move forward into the purpose, into the promise, and into the provision of God. Go forward.

Well then, of course, we read … This is the thing [Jesus was telling us to] remember in Luke 17:32. Jesus said, "Remember Lot's wife" (CSB), the only woman in Scripture He tells us to remember. The only reference to her is in Genesis 19:26. It says this: "But Lot's wife, behind him, looked back, and she became a pillar of salt" (ESV). So there we have it. Jesus says, "Remember Lot's wife!" And then Genesis 19 says she looked back and became a pillar of salt.

So if you are wondering why I called my book Don't Look Back, there it is. Don't look back because Jesus told us, "Remember Lot's wife!" The world as we know it is burning down. And so, for many of us, there have been relationships, there have been businesses, there have been dreams, there have been things in our lives … and the fact is that we keep looking back. And this word in the original [Hebrew suggests that] when she was “looking back,” what that meant was she was lingering. She was longing.

And I don't blame her. Sometimes we can be really hard on Lot's wife, but the truth is … Who wouldn't look back? I don't know. Maybe she’d just renovated her kitchen or put an extension on the house. Who wouldn't be looking back? She had friends there. She had a life there. She had built everything in Sodom. The thing is burning down suddenly, abruptly, without warning. She's just been taken out of everything that she knew. And she is rescued, but of course there is this moment of hesitation that says, You know what? Look what I'm losing. Look what I'm leaving. Look what's burning.

And there's not a woman listening to this who hasn't felt that relationally, emotionally, spiritually, financially, physically … especially over the last few years. Some of us, if you've got a background like mine where I was left in a hospital unnamed and unwanted and I was sexually abused for many, many years as a child, it is easy to look back into the trauma of our past, the pain of our past. It is easy to keep looking back and think, If that didn't happen to me, I would be different. If my ex-husband didn't leave me, I would be in a better place. If my kids turned out better, if I hadn't got married, if I hadn't had children, if that business didn't fail, if that ministry didn't take off …

It is amazing how much of our lives we spend looking back and wishing. What if? If only that didn't happen ... And we are longing and lingering for a reality that no longer exists, or may have never have existed, when God is holding on to us, saying, The future is ahead of you. My promise is ahead of you. My provision is ahead of you.

And some of you might be thinking, Chris, how can you say that? Look at the world that we're living in. Look what is happening around us. But Scripture teaches us that all the promises of God are, in Christ Jesus, yes and amen (2 Corinthians 1:20). Yes, we've had a pandemic. Yes, we've had economic instability. Yes, we've had political upheaval. Yes, we have had a tectonic shift in the very fabric of the moral foundation of our lives. Yes, the world has changed. But Jesus is the same yesterday, today and forever (Hebrews 13:8). And all of the promises of God are, in Christ Jesus, yes and amen.

So even though everything around us has changed, Jesus has not changed. The promise hasn't changed. The purpose hasn't changed. The future He has for us has not changed. And what we have to do is stop looking back at what was and look forward and fix our eyes on Jesus, who is the Author and the Finisher of our faith (Hebrews 12:2). No political system is the author and the finisher of our faith. No financial system is the author and the finisher of our faith. No moral system or social system is the author of our faith or the finisher of it. No other person is the author or the finisher of our faith. Jesus is the Author and the Finisher.

So what we have to do is come out of our lull, come out of our languishing, come out of those things in the last three years that have kept us stuck and paralyzed, and look up at Jesus again, remembering the promise, the purpose, the provision, the future that He has for us. The abundant life that He came to give us is actually ahead of us and not behind us.

And what happened to Lot's wife? She got stuck as a pillar of salt because she was torn between what she was leaving and where she was going. Her attachment to the past outweighed her confidence in the future. She wanted what she had more than what God had for her. And she basically prioritized her past over her future. So she got stuck in a place that she should have only been passing through.

And I think that happens to a lot of us. We get stuck in a place forever, maybe a place of divorce or a place of loss or a place of grief or a place of a business failing or a relationship failing or a betrayal somewhere along the line — or even a failure or a mistake that we've made or a regret that we have. And instead of allowing that to be a moment in our life … It’s a moment that can't be dismissed or denied or ignored or just basically glossed over but a moment that we bring to the foot of the cross, and we can allow the Holy Spirit to touch us in those broken places.

And whether that involves therapy, a small group, working through issues … I didn't get over the pain of my abuse in one day — or one year, for that matter, or even a decade. It took me a long time of working with a great Christian counselor, being in the Word, being in Christian community, committing myself to the process of renewing my mind and moving forward. But I can testify that my history does not define my destiny. I can testify that what Jesus did for me was greater than what any abuser or person did to me. I can testify that what the enemy meant for evil in my life, God has turned around and worked together for my good and for His glory (Romans 8:28).

Now, that doesn't mean I like what happened to me. That doesn't mean I will ever say what happened to me was OK — because it never was. But what it does mean is that God redeemed the broken places of my past. And now not only did He rescue me, but by His grace and His mercy, He uses me to rescue the victims of human trafficking all around the world. And because I didn't get stuck in a moment of pain, I didn't get stuck in a moment of abuse, I didn't get stuck in a moment of betrayal or hurt or bitterness or unforgiveness, by the power of the Holy Spirit and the presence of Jesus in my life and great counselors and a great commitment to moving forward, I have seen literally thousands of men, women and children rescued and restored around the world, hundreds of traffickers brought to justice and sent to jail. And literally hundreds of millions of people on every continent of the globe have been made aware and have been reached with a message of prevention and awareness for human trafficking.

Now, girls, just imagine if I got stuck. Imagine if I remained a victim of my past for all of my life. Then I would not be doing the purpose that God called me to do. And there's somebody listening to this podcast somewhere, and you are thinking, You know what? I'd hoped — man, I hoped — it was not going to be like this. I hoped that relationship was going to work out. I hoped that business was going to work out. I had hoped that ministry was going to work out. I had hoped that I would have been better and that I wouldn't have failed and I wouldn't have made a mistake. I had hoped my kids were going to make it and be flourishing with God instead of living the lives that they're living. I had hoped that I would be married by now. I had hoped that I would've had children by now.

We've all got this — insert whatever it might be in your life — but the fact is that maybe what this has revealed about some of us is that we have some misplaced hopes. We have our ultimate hope in temporary things. And Hebrews 6:19 says that Jesus is this hope we have as an anchor for our souls. So although some of our temporal hopes may not have come to pass, we don't need to get stuck in hopelessness or despair or despondency or disappointment or disillusionment because greater than any of our temporal hopes is Jesus Himself. And He is this hope we have as an anchor for our souls, both firm and secure. And He still remains, and His purpose remains, and His promise remains, and His provision remains. And with our God, we can crush any army and scale any wall (Psalm 18:29). And with our God, we can do all things through Christ Jesus who strengthens us (Philippians 4:13). And with our God, all things are possible (Matthew 19:26). And greater is He who is in us than he who is in the world (1 John 4:4).

And we are well able to overcome the pain of our past and the challenges of our past and the failures of our past. And our God is able to do immeasurably more than all we ask or imagine (Ephesians 3:20), and I believe that our eye hasn't seen, our ear has not heard, nor has it entered into our hearts the things that God has for us (1 Corinthians 2:9). And if our God is for us, then who can be against us (Romans 8:31)?

And, girls, I want to remind you that the same Spirit that raised Jesus Christ from the dead lives on the inside of you and me. We might be small, but our God is huge. We have limitations, but our God is limitless. We are weak, but our God is strong. We are finite, but our God is infinite. We might be imperfect, but our God is perfect. We fail, but our God never fails.

So through our God, we don't need to get stuck in a moment of our past or a moment of our failure or a moment of bitterness or offense or unforgiveness. We don't need to get stuck in a chapter of our lives. The greatest chapters are yet to be written. The greatest story is yet to be told. We fix our eyes on Jesus. He is the Author. He is the Finisher. And this one thing we do: Forgetting those things that lie behind, we press on to lay a hold of all that which Christ Jesus has laid a hold of for us (Philippians 3:13-14). And so the greatest advice I can give each and every one of us is that it's time to remember Lot's wife. In Jesus' name.

Meredith Brock:
Amen, Christine.

Kaley Olson:
Yeah.

Meredith Brock:
I am telling you what — every time you preach, I'm like, "All right, girls. Let's do it. Let's charge the gates of hell. I am ready."

Kaley Olson:
I know. I know.

Meredith Brock:
So powerful, so good. I'm just sitting here pondering, and I have a question for you —

Christine Caine:
Sure.

Meredith Brock:
— that's very practical for our listeners and that hopefully will help them. This is the question I have. So let's play a little imaginary game for a minute.

Christine Caine:
Sure.

Meredith Brock:
And pretend like we're Lot's wife.

Christine Caine:
Mm-hmm. OK.

Meredith Brock:
And we're running from the fire, right? We know that we've been told, "Don't turn around."

Christine Caine:
Uh-huh.

Meredith Brock:
In that moment … I'm going to pretend that I'm Lot's wife, and that urge comes up, right? That's natural.

Christine Caine:
Yeah. Yeah.

Meredith Brock:
I think you said it when teaching there that maybe she was like, Oh, man. I just renovated my kitchen.

Christine Caine:
Yeah.

Meredith Brock:
I would like to take a look back. Everybody has that urge.

Christine Caine:
Uh-huh.

Meredith Brock:
For me, it kind of pops up oftentimes when I'm scrolling through the social media.

Christine Caine:
Oh. Yeah.

Meredith Brock:
And I see somebody that triggers a thought from my past.

Christine Caine:
Huh.

Meredith Brock:
Or triggers a regret or an "I wish I had" moment.

Christine Caine:
Uh-huh.

Meredith Brock:
What should Lot's wife have done with that urge?

Christine Caine:
Yeah. And I'm glad you picked that up because the truth is I think sometimes we're so hard on her. Because I would say, if we're all honest, we have that urge multiple times a day about many different things. And I think that is the truth of it. So I don't think the principle changes. It is that you've got to bring every thought into captivity to the knowledge of God, and you've got to do it again and again and again and not think it's a “once and done.”

So there are certain things that I know are going to put me in a place of pondering, of lamenting, of grieving, when I've already gone through the process. The very first chapter in the book talks about mourning — because I'm not into denial. I'm not saying you sweep stuff under the carpet. But I am saying that you're going to have to do some fairly aggressive things to stop yourself from looking back because human nature will always want to look back. I think that's why Jesus is like, "Remember." You don't want to get calcified in a moment you're supposed to be passing through.

So for me, that means I have pretty strict rules around myself about social media engagement and scrolling because I realize certain things trigger me. I'll give you a great example. Even last night, I was speaking at this large event with thousands of women, and I had my phone because I was ready to take a video for something. Someone wanted me to send them a video of what was happening. It was so powerful. And a text popped up.

So I wasn't looking for it, but this is what's going to happen. It'll come looking for you. And I saw the person's name, and I just saw the first line, and it was like … Literally, I had this visceral reaction. My heart started racing. I could feel myself thinking, Oh, no. Oh, no. It was just ... And I just chose instantly to turn my phone off and thought, I'm just not even going to go there. I'm not even going to see this. I don't even want to look at it because it's going to start me down a path that I know is not going to be good.

So there are certain things that I think … You can avoid putting yourself in a situation until you really feel like you've got victory over something [and avoid what is] going to put you down that downward spiral of looking back, rehearsing, obsessively ruminating. Have a place where you can process it. And I know with Proverbs 31 Ministries, you guys are just so brilliant with talking about having safe people to process things with and to work through things with.

But then you're still going to come to a point where you're going to have to make a decision. I know that this is not a good place for me, scrolling through this. Maybe you need to mute some people, so you don't hurt their feelings, and just go, At this point in my life, I cannot go there. I cannot be engaging in that for my own sake because it's going to unravel me.

And then the truth is you're going to have to ... Because sometimes looking back and obsessively ruminating actually gives you a nice feeling. It's not always that it's a bad feeling. Sometimes it gives you a warm, fuzzy feeling because you've created a narrative in your head, and you like going back to that. But that's holding you back from the future and what God has got for you.

So sometimes you go, OK. I'm either going to give myself two minutes to think about this or I just am not going to go there. I just cannot go there. I've chosen to close the chapter. So when that pops up, I'm going to replace that thought with another thought or have a scripture [to recall]. For me, I've got certain scriptures, and I say them out loud. And so when I see something, I'm like, "No." I literally, to this day, say to myself out loud, "No, Christine."

And if necessary, I've got a couple of friends [I can call on]. If I think it's starting to get a little bit out of control, I'll call them and go, "OK. You need to pray with me. You need to talk me off the ledge. And I'm not going to go there. Help reorient my eyes." Because where you look, you will go.

Kaley Olson:
Yeah.

Christine Caine:
So be careful what you stare at. Be careful what you look at. And what you behold, you become. And so if you keep scrolling and you keep swiping, you're going to become a different version of that down the track anyway. So you are better to arrest your eyes, arrest your ears. The gateway to your mind and your heart is through your eyes and your ears. So you have to be ruthless with what goes into your eyes and ears.

Kaley Olson:
Yeah.

Meredith Brock:
I love that you just said “ruthless.”

Kaley Olson:
Uh-huh.

Meredith Brock:
And before that, you said you have to aggressively take your thoughts captive. This is not a passive game. If we —

Kaley Olson:
Yeah.

Christine Caine:
No. That's the fight of faith.

Meredith Brock:
Amen.

Christine Caine:
Because the enemy is going for your mind.

Meredith Brock:
That's exactly right.

Christine Caine:
The enemy is going ... You've got a real enemy. And the enemy is not yourself. There is a real enemy who comes to steal, kill and destroy (John 10:10). So you don't play with the enemy. You don't placate an enemy. You eliminate him through the power of the Word of God.

Meredith Brock:
Amen. And it really isn't [a game]. I think so many times I've seen, in my own life or in relationships with close friends, that it's like, "I just ... This is just hard." And I'm like, "Well, then get aggressive and fight back."

Kaley Olson:
Yeah.

Christine Caine:
Exactly.

Kaley Olson:
Yeah. Yeah.

Christine Caine:
Exactly.

Meredith Brock:
This is not something to be passive about.

Christine Caine:
Not at all.

Meredith Brock:
But to take aggressively if you want to make progress.

Kaley Olson:
Yeah.

Meredith Brock:
So, Kaley, I know you had a question.

Kaley Olson:
Yeah.

Meredith Brock:
What are you thinking about over there?

Kaley Olson:
Well, it's a good opportunity for me to spin off of the word “progress” because, Christine, I know you talked earlier about all the things that you had been through in your life, even starting from birth and being unnamed, unwanted.

Meredith Brock:
Yes.

Kaley Olson:
And then you were given the life of purpose. And you have used that past that you've had, and you've channeled it into some purpose. But I think that sometimes women are in a season of life where they're still hurting, but they want to move forward. And so I know your book is titled Don't Look Back, but is there ever a point in life that we are healed enough to be able to go, "OK, I'm ready to glean from this and move forward"? So what does that look like? Can you share about maybe how you knew you were ready to look with healthy eyes and move forward?

Christine Caine:
For sure. And I've got a chapter on that, too, because I thought, People are going to say ... If you listen to me for any length of time, I am very big on [this:] What you don't reveal cannot be healed.

Kaley Olson:
Yeah.

Christine Caine:
And so there has to be a healing. And I talk about the difference between glancing back for healing as opposed to looking back to linger and to stay in your past. And that's the difference.

Kaley Olson:
Mm-hmm.

Christine Caine:
And I'm not talking about just bad things in your past. It could be really good things. There's people who are 55 still talking about when they played high school volleyball. And I'm like, "Hey. That was a lot of years ago."

Kaley Olson:
Yeah.

Christine Caine:
"Take down the trophies. There's been a lot of decades since then."

Kaley Olson:
Yeah.

Christine Caine:
And so it can become whichever way you want it to be. But I know for me, there is a time ... You don't live in your past. But unless you go back to reveal those broken places, then God cannot heal that. And I think you do it in varying degrees. The Holy Spirit is so gracious, and I think there's a challenge. And especially in the sort of social media world we live in now, we think that we can just deal with everything all at once.

Kaley Olson:
Yeah.

Christine Caine:
And we think the minute we've had healing in one small area of our lives, then we've got a story to tell the whole world. But the Bible says that people will be saved by the blood of the Lamb, the word of our testimony, and that we loved not our lives unto death (Revelation 12:11). It takes a long time for a story to become a testimony.

Kaley Olson:
Mm-hmm.

Christine Caine:
And a testimony is never a testimony until it's been tested.

Kaley Olson:
Right. Yeah.

Christine Caine:
And so it's the testings that will actually trigger something. And when the thing is triggered, you will understand whether you still have a wound that is seeping toxicity or whether you have a scar that is healed that can bring wholeness to other people.

Kaley Olson:
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Christine Caine:
So I will forever have scars in my life, but you can press those places in my life, and when you can press those scars and there's no toxicity coming out of it, then I know there's no wound there, so I can bring ministry out of those broken places. But oftentimes, I think, you can read, you can see in posts, and you can hear in people's stories that they're telling a part of their story, but there's still a lot of toxicity. There's still a lot of hurt or bitterness or unforgiveness or shame or guilt. It could be a number of things, but there's still a lot of toxicity. And if you try to minister out of your woundedness, then you're just going to continue to spread your toxicity.

Kaley Olson:
Yeah.

Christine Caine:
You go and get healed in your woundedness, and that's where you look back. And then there comes a time where you realize you could talk about something and there's not any toxicity. There's not an edge to it.

Kaley Olson:
Yeah.

Christine Caine:
There's wholeness, and there's health, and there's redemption from it. That's when you are really moving forward. And then you're not living in your past — you're using your past to help give somebody else a future. That's a different thing.

Kaley Olson:
Yeah. Wow. That's so helpful and, I know, so practical for women who are wanting to say, "OK. I know I've been through this, but how can I use this to help others?" And so thank you so much for coming on the show today, Christine. I wish we had hours and hours —

Meredith Brock:
I know.

Kaley Olson:
— to listen to your wisdom.

Christine Caine:
I would love to. You guys are awesome.

Kaley Olson:
Thank you again so much for coming on the show. I want to be sure that our listeners get their hands on your new book, Don't Look Back. And I know we learned not to look back, but I'm going to be cheesy again and say: Go look back at the show notes! Hey! And grab the link for Christine's book. We've put it there for you guys to purchase. Grab one for you, grab one for a friend, and go through it together.

Meredith Brock:
Absolutely. You'd be crazy not to.

Kaley Olson:
Right.

Meredith Brock:
Because, gosh, all you're getting is the tip of the iceberg here on this podcast.

Kaley Olson:
Yeah. Seriously.

Meredith Brock:
And there's so much more wisdom, so much more biblical insight, that Chris has to offer in that book. So don't miss out. We also have in our show notes another free resource called “Now What? A Guide To Process and Apply Biblical Messages” that we wanted to tell our listeners about. So go take a look at that. Don't miss out on it. And one last thing, y'all: If you loved hearing from Chris today, I want to encourage you to go connect with her on Instagram.

Kaley Olson:
Yes.

Meredith Brock:
Go connect with her over at Propel Women and at the A21 Campaign. She's doing some really amazing stuff, and I would hate for you to miss out on that.

Kaley Olson:
Yes, absolutely. Well, friends, that's all we have for today. Thank you so much for tuning in. At Proverbs 31 Ministries, we believe when you know the Truth and live the Truth, it changes everything.