The Proverbs 31 Ministries Podcast

Meredith Brock: I'm your host, Meredith Brock, and I am here today with my co-host, Kaley Olson.

Kaley Olson: Well, hey, Meredith. I am so excited about today's episode because it's kind of like a sneak peek behind the curtain here at Proverbs 31 Ministries for our friends who listen.

And if you don't know, Proverbs 31 is actually more than just this podcast. You can find out more at proverbs31.org about what we do, but in case you're driving, let me just tell you, our deepest desires to connect women all over the world with the truth. And we do this by offering several online resources to meet the needs of women.

Resources just like this podcast you're listening to, as well as the free First 5 mobile app, Encouragement for Today devotions, the therapy and theology podcast, and so much more. So twice a month, our staff who pulls off everything that I just mentioned a second ago gathers to meet, and we always start off with prayer and a teaching. And today, consider yourself an extension of our staff and pull up a seat at the table because we're gonna let you hear a teaching that our president, Lisa Terkeurst, recently shared with us.

So with that in mind, let me just give you one disclaimer before we jump in. If you've ever questioned whether God is still at work, this episode is gonna be your sign. And with that, Meredith, let's dive into today's teaching.

Lysa Terkeurst: Good morning. Hello, hello. I love to hear all the connection and friendship noise.

That's what I call it when there's chatter like that. It makes my heart so happy. I'm gonna jump right into the scripture.

Philippians chapter 1, starting in verse 2. Grace and peace to you from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ. I thank my God every time I remember you. In all my prayers for you, I always pray with joy because of your partnership.

Can everyone say partnership? Because of your partnership in the gospel from the first day until now. Being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus. I love reading scripture in full context, especially when there's kind of a popular verse, because I think a lot of us think of being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.

But I love keeping it in the context of what's said right before that. I thank God every time I remember you. In all my prayers for all of you, I always pray with joy because of your partnership in the gospel from the first day until now, being confident of this.

So being confident of what? That we're in partnership with the gospel, right? And so that helps provide the context of the good that is going to be the good work in you that will carry it to completion until the day of Christ Jesus. I think it's so important because sometimes, and I know I've said this before, but I just cannot say it enough. Here is confession from Lysa.

I really become very attached to outcomes. I've said this before, but I cannot say it enough. And my brain does it so automatically that when something hard happens, I like to run ahead and I like to imagine all the good that can possibly come from that scenario.

And then I become so attached to the good that I think a good God should do. And then I want to hold God accountable to the good that I think a good God should do. And I become very, very attached to that outcome.

But what the Lord has really been teaching me is that that's really a form of control. And I don't really consider myself a very controlling person. If you asked me to lunch today, I would let you pick where we go.

If we were going to go on a girls weekend, sorry guys, I can't say I'm going to go on a guys weekend because that would be weird. But if we were going to go like on a weekend trip, I would be like, you pick where we want to go, you know? And I'm so go with the flow with that. But I have noticed that regarding outcomes and the good that I think a good God should do, sometimes I start to feel like I am only willing to accept the outcome that I think is best.

And that's such a sign of control. It's control with a good motive. It's not like I have a bad heart in it.

But holding hands with that thought is everything depends on me. Now I say with my mouth, everything depends on God, right? Totally say that. But in my heart, I start to carry the pressure that if I don't help keep steering the bus this direction, the wheels are literally going to fall off.

So everything depends on me. I have to think about everything leading to the outcome. I have to strategize and navigate and in my head kind of control the narrative so that everything continues to go to the outcome because I'm utterly attached to the outcome that I think is best.

So if we're not supposed to be in that realm of control, because what happens, what does that eventually lead to? It leads to anxiety, frustration, possibly even disobedience. It can lead to chaos, which is often where the enemy wants us. The enemy wants us in chaos.

The enemy wants us in division. The enemy wants us to get to a place, and this is really important, of emotional exhaustion leading to spiritual confusion. That's where the enemy really wants to take.

And that form of control, being very attached to the outcome, everything depends on me will lead right there. On the other hand, if we're not supposed to be controlling, what are we supposed to be? We're supposed to be in a place of stewardship. There's a big difference between stewardship and control.

Whereas control, the two mantras are everything depends on me, and I'm only willing to accept the outcome that I think is best. Stewardship is different than that. Stewardship is I will trust God with the outcome.

And acknowledging I absolutely have no control ultimately of the outcome. The other mantra of stewardship is I will be responsible to manage that which is within my ability to manage. So, it's not like I have a baby, set it in the crib and go, well, Lysa just taught us not to control, so let go and let God, you know.

No, we don't do that. We have to be responsible to manage that which is within our ability to manage, right? But I think that the line right there between stewardship and control is kind of paper thin sometimes. And of course we struggle with this because we're human.

We are imperfect. But God has assigned us the role to be a steward not because He doesn't see our desires, but because He wants to give us the desires that will lead us somewhere opposite of chaos, right? Delight yourself in the Lord and He will give you the desires of your heart. That doesn't mean He'll give you everything you want.

It literally means He's going to plant the desires in your heart that will continue to be that cycle of delighting in the Lord and what He thinks is best and He knows is best. He doesn't just think, He knows. So, what does stewardship lead us to? Well, stewardship takes us straight into surrender.

And I don't mean surrender as in giving up. I mean surrender as in my job is to be obedient to God. God's job is everything else.

And then what does that take us to? Well, that kind of surrender, that kind of obedience in God, that kind of trust in the Lord, that takes us straight to the peace that passes all understanding. Jesus said, in this world you will have trouble, right? Anybody escaped trouble their whole life? I just want you to raise your hand. Anybody? Anybody ever had trouble in this world? Just anybody? Anybody have trouble in this world, right? Jesus said, in this world you will have trouble.

You will have relational tensions. You will have relational breakups. You will have frustrations.

You will have bills that are hard to pay. You will get a diagnosis. You will, in this world, you will have trouble.

But Jesus says, take heart because, take heart, I have overcome the world. And if we have Jesus operating in us and God's Spirit working through us, then Jesus is the Prince of Peace. So we have the opportunity to bring peace into every atmosphere that we walk into.

And that kind of peace that passes all understanding is what I want more of in my life. But it costs me something. It costs me the fact that I ultimately have to make peace with the fact that I cannot control the outcome and that everything doesn't depend on me.

And that sometimes feels really scary. However, it is really, really good. And it's really, really necessary.

Because how are we supposed to be an effective partner for Christ if we do not have the peace of God operating in us and through us? You see, as followers of Christ, we're supposed to look a little bit different than the rest of the world. And sometimes when I'm in control mode—again, Lysa, confession, I'm not putting this on anybody else—but for me, when I'm stepping over into control mode and I'm anxious and frustrated and stirred up and it just takes the least little thing to kind of tip me over the edge, you know, that does lead to disobedience because I'm not looking like I have Jesus inside of me. I am just as frustrated and angry and stirred up as anybody else in the world.

But I'm supposed to have a distinctive. That doesn't mean I do it perfectly, but it does mean that I keep my eyes where Jesus wants them, and that's on Him. And when I'm in stewardship mode, I'm so much less focused on the things that offend me, the things that are coming at me, the things that hurt me.

Those things need to be acknowledged. We don't want to live in denial. And those things need to be tended well, too.

We need to have good conversations. If we need to go to counseling, go to counseling. If we need to get into God's Word, which oftentimes when I'm stirred up about something, that's the time I don't want to get into God's Word, but when I don't want to get into God's Word, that's usually when I need it the absolute most, right? So, but all of those things that don't make me look like more of Jesus, they're a distraction from being a partner in the gospel, because I keep my eyes so focused on what is troubling me that I forget to lift my eyes and see the bigger picture, the greater landscape.

And that is that there are people out there every single day who need to see the love and the hope and the gentleness and the grace of God, because we might be one of the only visions of that that they see in this world. Twenty-four years ago, I got on a plane, and if you've been with the ministry for a while, you're going to know the first part of the story, but not the last part of the story. So, 24 years ago, I got on a plane, and I was super tired.

I'd been speaking at a retreat, and so I was just all the way poured out. And I had kind of noticed this pattern. Now, again, this is confession.

I'm not advocating for this. I have issues sometimes. So, I had noticed that sometimes when I'm really, really tired, if I would get on the plane and open up my Bible, people wouldn't want to talk to me.

I know that's terrible for me to say, but kind of killing two birds with one stone. It's like, well, I'm reading God's Word, and they know if I'm reading the Bible and they start asking me questions or start talking to me that I'm probably going to go straight to the Bible. So, some people would like that, but some people won't.

So, I got on the plane. I sat down. I opened up my Bible.

The man that was sitting beside me, he got on the plane. He sat down. He looked over at me, and immediately he said, wow, you're reading the Bible.

That's an interesting thing to read. And I said, yes, what do you know about the Bible? And he started fumbling with his answer a little bit, letting me know that he probably hadn't spent too much time reading God's Word. And when I asked him about his relationship with the Lord, you know, he knew facts about God, but he wasn't making the full connection of a relationship with God.

And then, after he fumbled with his answer a little bit, he looked at me and he said, what do you know about the Bible? I was like, well, ask me questions, and I would love to walk you through some really key scriptures in the Bible. And so, he started asking me questions, and at first they were easy, and I had verses all prepared for that. But then he started asking me bigger questions, and so I start lifting up emergency prayers to God.

I was like, help me, help me, help me, because I might not know some of these answers. But the Lord was so gracious. I would turn to a passage, and something about that passage would relate to something that we were talking about.

So, it was just a really sweet time, and I'm witnessing to this man. Suddenly, I feel this pressure in my heart, kind of like I just knew the Lord was giving me an instruction to give this man my Bible. And I was like, oh.

While I'm witnessing to this man, I start having an argument with God. I'm like, no, this is my Bible, Bible. This is my tear-stained, highlighted.

All my notes are in here. My kids have drawn pictures in here. That is a great suggestion, though, God, to make sure this man gets a Bible.

So, I will go home. I will buy a Bible. I'll highlight it.

I'll write notes in it. I'll package it up. I'll send it to him.

Go, God. And so, then I continue my conversation with this man. But God was just really crystal clear, and He kept putting it on my heart, like, Lysa, no, give this man your Bible.

So, eventually, I took a deep breath, and I closed my Bible, and I put my Bible on the man's lap. And I said, sir, I think you're supposed to have my Bible. And he said, why would you give what is obviously such a treasured possession to a complete stranger? Why would you do that? And I said, well, I'll be honest.

I don't really want you to have my Bible. But I know God does. I know.

I know that the Lord has paused in the midst of all of His creation to make sure that we were seated together today, to make sure we had this conversation, and the Lord wants you to have this particular Bible. And he thanked me, and the plane landed. I gave him my office number, and I said, hey, keep in touch, you know.

And then he went on about his life, and I went on about mine. I had no idea. He could have absolutely thrown that Bible away in the nearest airport trashcan.

And so, as I got off the plane that day, I was wrestling with the outcome, really wrestling. Like, Lord, should I just follow Him for a little bit? So, if He does put my Bible in the trashcan, like, I can retrieve it, right? And I just knew the Lord was like, you need to trust the outcome with me. Trust me with the outcome.

Your job was to be obedient to God. God's job is everything else. And even in a scenario that's that small, it was that hard.

But I didn't chase him down. I didn't stalk him. I never contacted him and asked him for the Bible back.

Now, two weeks later, he did contact me at the office, and when I picked up the phone, he was like, Lysa, I went home, and I took a week off from work to read the Bible. And I was kind of like, yeah, absolutely. Like, that's what we all do.

But in my mind, I was thinking, I've never taken a week off from work just to read the Bible. So, that was amazing, really mind-blowing, actually, that he would do that. And he said, then I decided I needed to start going to church.

And so, I was driving my car to this one church, and I thought I was supposed to go to that church, and I literally could not even make my car turn into the parking lot. And so, I had to go to this other church. And I said, oh, I bet that was the Holy Spirit just directing you.

He said, well, it was the Holy something, because something was weird. I could not go to that church. I had to go to this other church.

And he said, and then I walked in this other church. I sat down. They had some little papers in a pocket in the chair in front of me.

I pulled them out, and I yelled out loud in church. I said, you yelled out loud in church? And he said, yes, because your picture was on that paper. He said, I don't know how your picture is on that paper.

We live states away. And I'm like, that's the woman that gave me my Bible. And I was like, well, actually, you know, I like teach the Bible.

I travel around, and so maybe I'm going to be their speaker or something like that. And so we just had a delightful conversation. He acknowledged again.

He said, Lysa, I really, I just felt it was important for you to know I agree with you that I do thank God paused for me, and I just wanted to thank you. And then that was that. Never heard from him again until about three and a half weeks ago when I was on tour.

And we were at the San Antonio, Texas, New Brunsfield, I think was what it was actually called in Texas. Shae was out in the lobby, and she was helping Karen with the book table and talking to people. And Shae suddenly comes bounding on the bus with her eyes like super wide.

And she was like, Lysa, you're never going to believe this. But three women related to the Bible man are here, and they brought the Bible man's Bible, and they would love to meet you. And I was like, absolutely, go get them, bring them on the bus.

And so she went and she brought them on the bus. And Ron, the Bible man, passed away two years ago. And his family wanted me to know not only had Ron given his heart to the Lord, but he led his entire family to the Lord.

Wow, right? And his daughter brought the Bible because when her dad passed away two years ago, she's the one that got the Bible. And she opened it up, and she said, I just wanted to show you your handwriting, your kid's handwriting, my dad's handwriting. You know, her father, Ron, had handwriting in the Bible.

And then she said, and I wanted you to see how much I've written in the Bible, because for the past two years, this Bible is the thing that has comforted me the most in losing my dad. And I was just absolutely blown away. And I said, would you mind if I took some pictures, you know, of the Bible? So I did.

I took pictures. And then as I was flipping through the pages, I noticed there was a piece of paper that was stuck in kind of the middle of the Bible. And I pulled the paper out, and it was dated October 25, 2001.

It was a receipt of something I purchased 24 years ago, right before I got on that plane with Ron. And the reason why I had tucked the receipt in the pages of the Bible is because on the back of the receipt, I wrote all the verses that I encouraged Ron to start with whenever he started reading the Bible. And somehow that receipt was still in those pages of the Bible 24 years later.

I know that some of you are going through really challenging things in your life. And I know sometimes it can start to feel way too scary to trust God with the outcome. And we know logistically with our mind that God's in charge of the outcome ultimately anyways.

But we can sometimes get in this place where we think we have to fix it. We have to figure it out. We have to say what needs to be said.

We have to, like, think through all the possibilities. If this, then this, and what if this, and what if that. And it can just absolutely wear us out and get us to a place of complete emotional exhaustion that will lead to spiritual confusion.

So I want to fully acknowledge that there are hardships. Absolutely, positively, no doubt about it. But I just want to encourage you not to get so focused on the hardships and trying to figure everything out that we forget that we have the Prince of Peace working in us.

That we are a partner with the gospel. And sometimes the thing that will encourage us the most is seeing rich evidence of God at work right here, right now, today. I think we get spiritually confused when we keep praying for this big thing to happen.

And then we wonder, why isn't God allowing this big thing to happen? But instead, I just want to encourage you, fully acknowledge the hardship. Tend well to your hardships. Do not live in denial.

Do what needs to be done. Be responsible managers of everything that God has given you to manage. But don't forget to acknowledge those hardships and at the same time, look up and look out.

There is a big, beautiful world out there. And sometimes God allows us to come across the path of another person. And we get to do it every single day at Proverbs 31.

But we cross paths where we do have the opportunity to be a partner with the gospel. And when we make the connection of God's presence, God has to be present in that connection. God has brought that person to you on this moment of this day.

That is a miracle. It's not the big miracle maybe that we keep wanting God to do. But if we can remember that God is good, God is faithful, God is active, God is right here, right now.

And if He brought that person into your life for this purpose, for this day, remember that is a miracle of God. That's such rich evidence of His goodness and His faithfulness. And we get to participate in that every single day.

No matter which department you work in in Proverbs, you're a part of everything that happens at Proverbs. And I think it's so good sometimes just to remember that God really is good. He really is good to us.

And He really is good at being God. And that day when I sat on that bus and I got to see the outcome of that little act of obedience 24 years ago, did God need me? No. If I would have said no that day, God would have put someone else in the path of that man, and someone else would have been obedient.

But then someone else trusting God with the outcome would have experienced that amazing blessing. And when I met those three gals that day, it was this daughter who's 21 years old. She was not even alive when I gave that man, when I gave her on the Bible.

And I met his sister, and I met their friend of the family. They all know Jesus because Ron told them. Ron was a partner of the gospel.

And all it took for me is just one act of obedience. And was it hard to give away my Bible 100 percent? Yes, but I would do it a million times over. But that's why it's called trust in God.

I didn't know the outcome. The outcome would have made it so much easier for me to walk in faith that day. However, my job is to be obedient to God.

God's job is everything else, and we must not forget that. Let me pray. Lord, thank you so much for the fact that you are so good.

You are so good to us. You're so good at being God. Be with us, Lord, and help us to remember to look up and look out and be a partner in the gospel today.

In your holy name we pray, amen.

Kaley Olson: Okay, Meredith, I love Lisa's story because the invitation to surrender in whatever form or capacity is an invitation that God gives to all of us. And we're not exempt from this.

Like if you follow God at some point, he's gonna give you an opportunity to obey regardless of what the outcome is gonna be. I think like getting to hear the story is hopeful for me because we get to hear the outcome. But there's a lot of stuff today that I think our friends are processing through where God is asking them to do something and they don't know what the outcome is.

And so guys, if that's you, I just pray that today's message was an encouragement to your soul and a reminder that God is absolutely trustworthy with what we open-handedly surrender to him.

Merdith Brock: Amen, Kaley. And honestly, I can think of like five things right now that the Lord is challenging me with to say, will you trust me? Will you obey? Will you surrender what you think the outcome should be? And let me lead you, let me provide for you.

And the reality is this message about surrender, it's so closely aligns with our call as a ministry to hopefully encourage all of our listeners, everybody who interacts with us to be obedient to the call God has given them, which is to be open-handed with the resources we offer for free. Here at Proverbs 31, we offer so many resources for free in order to intersect with women's lives and help them know the truth and live the truth because we want it to see, we wanna see it change everything in their life. That is my greatest passion and desire is to see women's lives changed because of their obedience to the Word of God.

And at Proverbs 31, we believe no woman should have to walk through a hard season without the hope of God's Word or any season really, because when one woman, just one, is met with the truth in the middle of something that is hard, whether that is heartbreak, fear, or simple uncertainty, it doesn't just change her, it begins to change everything around her. Every day here at Proverbs 31, we hear from women about how resources from Proverbs 31 Ministries has met them where they are and help them navigate really difficult seasons. And Kaylee, will you share, I know you've heard from friends, whether it be here on the podcast or in other places, but I'd love for you to share maybe a story from one of our friends.

Kaley Olson: Yeah, I would love to do that because I think getting to hear stories is like a full circle moment, kind of like Lysa's story about the man on the airplane. So this is from a lady named Tanya. She says, I have been walking through the death of my marriage and what I thought my life would be like.

I started listening to season three of the Therapy and Theology podcast where you worked through the hard questions and I cannot stop listening. It is so filled with truth, love, grace, and the gospel. I've never been a podcast listener, but I am sold.

I cannot thank you all enough for allowing me a seat at the table to listen, struggle and learn from you all and the Lord working through you. God has made himself so very evident to me through this podcast. It's amazing.

Meredith Brock: Wow, it really is amazing. And that is the reason we do all that we do here at Proverbs 31. We want to help women, whether they're facing an unwanted divorce or trying to navigate infertility or finding a job, we want to intersect the word of God and the solutions that are very real there with whatever they're facing.

And so when you choose to support Proverbs 31 ministries, which by the way, that is how we do what we do. We are a donor funded ministry. You make moments like this for Tanya possible because when you give, you're helping one more woman open her Bible and believe God hasn't forgotten her and she's not alone.

And so as we wrap up our time together today, I'm going to drop the link to give in the show notes below. And I want to ask you to prayerfully consider partnering with us because truly we can't do this work. We can't intersect.