The Proverbs 31 Ministries Podcast

Kaley: Hello, friends. Thanks so much for joining us on the Proverbs 31 Ministries Podcast. At Proverbs 31, we want to help you know the truth and live the truth, because we know when you do, it changes everything. I'm your host, Kaley Olson, and I'm joined by my friend and co-host, Meredith Brock.

Meredith: Hello, everyone. If this is your first time joining us, we're so glad you're here. If you have been with us since the beginning, welcome back to the podcast. Whatever season you're in, whatever your age, background or stage of life, this podcast is for you.

We talk a lot about how we're not limited to applying biblical truth in our season or stage of life here at Proverbs 31, and that biblical truth is biblical truth and we're learning to apply it where we are at, in whatever season we are in. We're all in this together, right Kaley?

Kaley: That's right, Meredith. At the end of every episode, we go into a discussion on how we live out that truth that Meredith just talked about in our seasons of life. Meredith is a busy working mom with two kids, working with Lysa and the executive team at Proverbs 31 Ministries to keep the ministry running.

Kaley: I'm a semi-newlywed who's been on staff for just over four years, and what I love about our working relationship is that we can learn from each other every day, and that's why I look forward to our discussions at the end of every podcast episode.

Meredith: I want to take a second and go back to our tagline you heard mentioned at the beginning of this episode. Know the truth, live the truth, because it changes everything. We are so passionate at Proverbs 31 about that, because we know that when truth gets down deep inside our hearts, it changes the way we go about our lives, and that's important for any stage of life.

Kaley: That's right. Well, Meredith, I'm excited to welcome our guest back to the podcast. Last week we heard from Lysa TerKeurst, the President of Proverbs 31 Ministries, and she taught an incredible episode on forgiveness that was so, so good. If you haven't listened to it, go back and listen to it and then jump back in on this podcast.

Meredith: That's right.

Kaley: Because it will really help set up this teaching. Welcome to the podcast, Lysa. We're so glad you're back.

Lysa: Well, thank you so much. I'm going to jump right in if that's okay.

Kaley: Let's do it.

Lysa: Just to give a very brief recap of last week. The key verse we were looking at was from Genesis 50:20. It's a verse that I really like a lot, but this was not an easy-earned verse. This is a hard-earned verse. The person that's speaking this hard-earned verse is Joseph.

Last week, we really spent time unpacking what happened in Joseph's life before he got to the place where he had his character developed to match his calling, and he could say this verse because, like I said, this is hard-earned.

Genesis 50:20, "You intended to harm me, but God intended it for good to accomplish what is now being done, the saving of many lives." When I read a verse like that, it's wonderful for several reasons. One, because I see that Joseph got to a place where he could say that verse, despite the fact he had been really, really hurt by a lot of people, the people in his life that should never have hurt him.

His brothers rejected him and sold him. I mean, just some really brutal realities in Joseph's life. He also was falsely accused. That's another form of extreme rejection, and a pretty major problem, because Joseph was put in prison.

Sometimes I think it's easy for us to read these stories and go, "Okay, and then Joseph was put in prison," and it's kind of like no, let's just sit on that word prison for a minute. Just imagine today your whole life being disrupted, you being falsely accused, ripped out of normalcy and put in prison. Y'all, that is no joke, right?

Kaley: Right.

Meredith: Yeah.

Lysa: He was there for years. This wasn't just like oh man, that really stinks. He was there for a couple of days, but praise the Lord, he got out. You intended to harm me, but God will use it for good. Nope, this is a hard-earned verse. That's where we were last week, and we really unpacked the realities of what happened to Joseph's life and got him to that place.

Now, I want to continue in the story of Joseph, but I want to go to a little bit of a different place. I want to turn over to Exodus. If we look in Exodus, let's start in verse 6, "Now Joseph and all his brothers and all that generation died, but the Israelites were exceedingly fruitful. They multiplied greatly, increased in numbers and became so numerous that the land was filled with them."

Okay, what happens here? You remember from last week, there was a famine in the land, and Joseph had been promoted to the second most powerful man behind Pharaoh in Egypt. Basically, Joseph got that promotion because he could interpret Pharaoh's dream. Pharaoh had a dream, or you could even say revelation from God, that there would be seven years of plenty and then seven years of famine.

During the seven years of plenty, Joseph instructed Pharaoh that they needed to develop a system to save up the food that would be provided for them in those seven years of plenty, so that during the seven years of famine, starvation would not wipe out the country of Egypt.

Joseph was so effective at this, when the famine not only reached Egypt but reached extending lands, all the way even to Israel where his brothers were, then what happened is the brothers came looking for food, as did many other people because Egypt had provisions that other people didn't have. So, his 11 brothers wind up in Egypt because Joseph forgives them and they plant themselves there basically.

They multiply and become the entire nation of Israel. If you've ever wondered like you read that story, like how did all the Israelites get to be slaves in Egypt in the story where it's like that song that sometimes they say ...

Kaley: Oh, Pharaoh, Pharaoh, that one?

Lysa: That Pharaoh, Pharaoh, whoa, whoa, got to let my people go, yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay?

Kaley: Yeah, yeah.

Lysa: Thank y'all for joining me. That was really stellar.

Meredith: I was going to let you go solo on that one.

Kaley: Supporting a sister.

Lysa: But we hear the story of Moses, but we don't often connect it to the story of Joseph, but Moses and Joseph are very much connected because how the entire nation of Israel got to be slaves in Egypt was because of this verse right here. It says, in verse 6, "Now Joseph and all his brothers and all that generation died, but the Israelites were exceedingly fruitful. They multiplied greatly, increased in numbers and became so numerous that the land," Egypt, "Was filled with them."

Verse 8, "Then a new king, to whom Joseph meant nothing, came to power in Egypt. 9 'Look,' he said to his people, 'the Israelites have become far too numerous for us. 10 Come, we must deal shrewdly with them or they will become even more numerous and, if war breaks out, will join our enemies, fight against us and leave the country.'" Verse 11, "They put slave masters over them to oppress them with forced labor."

Okay, so this is how the entire nation of Israel became slaves in Egypt. That's how then the Israelites cried out and cried out and cried out, and eventually God rose Moses up to then go and deliver the people out of slavery and oppression in Egypt, and the whole major story of Exodus unfolds.

But here's what I want to challenge you. Go back and think about where did this start? This oppression of an entire country, where did it start? Let's go back and look at a verse that we read last week in Genesis 37. I want you to look at starting at verse 4, "When his brothers," when Joseph's brothers, "Saw that their father loved him more than any of them, they hated him."

This is where it started. What seemed so small, like it doesn't seem like that big of a deal when we read these scriptures that Joseph's brothers hated him, but here's what I want you to know. This right here, this decision by his brothers to hate him, this unrelenting hatred of Joseph by the brothers, this unforgiveness of the brothers toward Joseph started a chain of events that would lead an entire nation to be slaves in Egypt.

You see, this is what I really want us to think about today in our life. Sometimes we think that our decisions don't really impact too many other people. What we don't realize is there's never just a little bit of hate. There's never just a little bit of unforgiveness. There's never just a little bit of bitterness. All that mess gets multiplied and it extends far wide and far deep. It has far reaching implications into future generations that we cannot even see.

Here's what the enemy wants us to think, "Oh Kaley, your hate is just a little bit of hate. Your bitterness is so justified. It's just a little bit of bitterness." I wonder if the enemy was whispering that to Joseph's brothers, because I'm telling you, their decision to hate Joseph and the chain of events that that set off, eventually we can see the multiplied impact of that, that it affected deeply.

Think about the cries of the Israelite people that we read about in Egypt, the cries of so many people, and the brothers' hatred of Joseph is what set up that chain of events that deeply impacted all these people. There's never just a little bit of hate. There's always a multiplied impact.

Kaley: Wow.

Lysa: Now, I want to show you this in kind of a funny little way. I don't know if you ever go through the drive-through at Chick-fil-A or you ever go get some nuggets at Chick-fil-A.

Kaley: I’d love a nugget now.

Meredith: A little too often.

Lysa: Or whatever restaurant you go to that that they hand out sauces, okay?

Meredith: Yes, love the sauce. Give me the Chick-fil-A sauce.

Kaley: It's so good.

Meredith: Oh my word.

Lysa: Okay, we will not talk about the health realities of that sauce.

Kaley: Back to the teaching.

Meredith: No, please don't tell me. Please do not tell me.

Lysa: I'm not. I'm not going to tell you that. I'm just saying maybe you should make a better choice and get like the-

Meredith: Oh, she lays it down.

Lysa: The honey mustard, better choice Meredith Brock.

Meredith: That stuff doesn't taste good. The Chick-fil-A sauce though, it is delicious.

Lysa: Maybe you need to get some of that Tabasco sauce and just put it on there and eat those nuggets like hot wings.

Meredith: No.

Lysa: That is like a very caloric economical decision, right? All right, here we go. I want to get back to the sauce for you.

Meredith: Okay.

Lysa: All right. Just think about this, all right, if you go through and you get a sauce with your eight pack of nuggets. That's costing that Chick-fil-A restaurant 15 cents, but that is okay, because I really think that everybody should be able to eat eight nuggets and one pack of sauce is more than sufficient. But most of the time, the people at the Chick-fil-A window, they're so generous. They are handing out two sauces for those eight nuggets.

Meredith: I love it when I get the two sauces.

Lysa: Okay, but let me ask you a question, do you have a drawer in your kitchen or do you have a little pile in your pantry.

Meredith: I sure do.

Lysa: With all the extra sauces, right?

Meredith: Yes ma'am, I do.

Lysa: All right, let me show you the multiplied impact of those extra sauces. Okay, every sauce that Chick-fil-A hands out is 15 cents. So, if they have 15 orders in a day, which I personally know a Chick-fil-A operator, right?

Meredith: Yeah, you do.

Lysa: He has at least 1,500 orders a day.

Meredith: For sure.

Lysa: All right. Let's just say that the people who work for him, by the way if you don't know, this is my husband, Art, he works at the Chick-fil-A. Okay, so, he's an owner or operator and I'm so thankful. This story, this deeply impacts my financial situation.

Meredith: This is very personal, people.

Lysa: All right. So, 1,500 orders a day in that Chick-fil-A, if his employees give out one extra sauce a day, that is $225 a day of extra sauces, okay? Now, they're open an average of 311 days in a year, so if I multiply out that added expense, they're open six days a week, so if I multiply out that added expense of one extra sauce being given out that people probably are not even using, that is a food waste, a food cost waste of $69,975 per year.

Meredith: Wow.

Lysa: If they give two extra sauces every single day, that is $450, multiplied out from over 311 days, that is a food cost waste of $139,950.

Meredith: Wow.

Kaley: I can think of a lot of things I would like to do with $100,000.

Meredith: Yeah, me too.

Lysa: That's right. The multiplied impact of just giving out some extra Chick-fil-A sauces that are sitting in people's drawers and piled up in their pantry all over.

Meredith: You're making me feel guilty.

Kaley: Meredith, you probably have some money in your pantry.

Meredith: Yeah, I do.

Kaley: If you sell those.

Meredith: I'm going to start selling those.

Lysa: Now, really if you want to do your mind blowing math, multiply that reality, that's just for one store.

Meredith: Oh my word, wow.

Lysa: Multiply that reality out by, I don't know, several thousand stores and you can see there is a multiplied impact that takes place. Now, we're talking about Chick-fil-A sauces, but I'm talking about the multiplied impact of our own unforgiveness in our life.

Meredith: Wow.

Lysa: When we make the decision to not forgive, it doesn't just affect us. There will be a multiplied impact that extends far wide, far reaching, and I guarantee you, we don't even realize it. So then that begs the question, okay, how do we forgive? In the Christian community, I think so many times it's like, okay, you need to forgive because that's the right thing to do. We add it to a Christian checklist like be nice, don't cuss. Listen to Christian music.

Meredith: Right.

Lysa: Go to church, put a bumper sticker on the back of your car about which church you go to, but only if you're going to follow the driving rules of the road please, right?

Kaley: Amen.

Lysa: Okay. We have this little checklist, and forgiveness is part of that checklist. We know we should forgive and so we all say, "Yeah, yeah, yeah. We need to forgive." But sometimes I think the process of forgiveness is lost in the command of forgiveness. I just want to encourage this notion that there is a process that we need to walk through when practicing forgiveness, and it is a practice and it is a process.

Here's step one. When someone does something to you and you feel deeply hurt, deeply offended, deeply wounded, number one, I think it's very healthy to write out all the feelings that you're having, that that situation created.

I also want you to write out like not only what you're feeling in the moment, like I'm angry, but I also want you to list out anything that this tapped into, possibly a previous wounding. It's like if someone says something to you and it deeply hurts you, it may be tied to the fact that you already wonder if that's true about you.

Meredith: Yeah.

Lysa: It maybe is an indication of an insecurity that you have. I want you to write up all those feelings, all those deep past hurts this could possibly be related to or even an insecurity that they just verbalize something you fear is actually true about you. I want you to write all that out. I want you to get it all out on paper.

I think this is important, because I think sometimes if we don't do this, then we're refusing to acknowledge the feelings that are really there and refusing to acknowledge that feelings can create stuffing, and stuffing can create explosions. I really just want, I think it's important. We're not going to park on our feelings, but we're going to acknowledge these feelings are there and they're real.

Meredith: Yeah.

Lysa: Okay. Then I want you to take all those feelings and I want you to literally — after you've written them down on a piece of paper — I want you to literally fold them over and address them to God. I want you to literally take all those feelings and say, "God, here they are. These are all the things that I am feeling. I don't like these feelings. I don't want to have these feelings. I'm asking you to help me process these feelings in a healthier way."

I think it's important to actively hand them over to God, so that we can have a marked moment in this situation where we really have turned the feelings over to God. Okay, so just to review, we've got step number one, write the feelings out. Step number two, hand them over to God.

Now, step number three, I want you to take another piece of paper and I want you to write out any hurt that you are aware of, that the other person has experienced. If you don't know any hurt that the person who offended you, if you don't know a previous hurt that they have experienced, I want you to write down what could possibly be a previous hurt that they experienced that would have caused them to do what they did to you, or to say what they said to you.

For example, recently someone said something to me that was so deeply hurtful. I just couldn't possibly understand. I couldn't even process like how did you even think that that was okay? Now, I did not know that this person had been through any kind of hurt in their past. What I had to do in my brain is I had to imagine their dad saying the same thing they said to me to them.

When I did that, it stirred up something in my heart. It's easy for us to say hurt people hurt people, but I think if we take a little step back in this process here and go, "Okay, that person really does have hurt in their life."

Now, the reason I want us to write down that hurt is because I'm going to have a really hard time having compassion for this person that has hurt me, but maybe I can have compassion on a previous hurt that they have experienced, which will lead me to have compassion for this person. Because without compassion for them, without getting myself to a place of compassion in step number three of this process of forgiveness, without compassion, I cannot possibly get to authentic forgiveness.

Meredith: That's good.

Lysa: Step number four, I'm going to write out a true statement of forgiveness for this person. The reason that I think it's important to write out a statement of forgiveness is because sometimes it's easy if we're just praying like, "Oh God, forgive this person." But I think when we write it down, it engages our brain to write out the fullness of what we need to forgive this person for.

If we write out a statement of forgiveness, not only will it engage our brain to write out the fullness of what we need to forgive this person for, but it will also be a marked moment in time that we can say absolutely 100%, I wrote a statement of forgiveness out for this person. Because here's what might happen: that person might hurt you again.

If that person hurts you again without a previous marked moment of forgiveness, you will take the hurt from the previous situation and you'll multiply it from the hurt of the next situation and you will have a much stronger or possibly even find it hard to restrain yourself from having a reaction that just creates an absolute relationship tornado.

If you have a marked moment of forgiveness, like we're talking about, then you can say, "No, I already forgave that hurt, so I'm not going to pull that hurt into the present hurt, and I'm going to just focus on the issue at hand."

Okay, so then step number five, after you've written up that statement of forgiveness, I want you to take that statement of forgiveness, and I want you to find the scripture in the Bible that relates to your situation somehow and I want you to open up your Bible, I want you to write the scripture on that statement of forgiveness, and then I want you to tuck that statement of forgiveness into the pages of your Bible and I want you to let it sit there for a couple of days.

Now, if you're anything like me, sometimes when I stick a piece of paper in my Bible, I don't always remember to take it out. Then one day I'm walking through church and that mess falls out. You've got to be careful about that. But here's the beautiful thing of what can happen when you tuck it into your Bible, if you remember to take it out in a couple of days and you can toss it in the trash. You can burn it. You can do whatever you want to do with it.

But it's another moment where you are actively pulling that statement out, engaging with a scripture that applies to your situation, reminding yourself that you have forgiven that person. If there are any lingering feelings from that whole situation, again, start the process over.

Write those feelings down and go through each of these steps again, because sometimes forgiveness is a one-time act, and sometimes it is an indication for a deeper engagement with God and it's a process that has to be repeated. Eventually, your heart will soften as you walk through these steps of forgiveness.

Now, you may have other steps that you want to add in. You may have parts of this process that don't work for you, and that's okay. But what I'm encouraging you to do is not necessarily follow this exact process, although you can, but here's what I'm really encouraging you to do. Come up with a process of forgiveness for yourself. The very best process of forgiveness for you is the one that actually works.

Meredith: That's so good, Lysa. So, so good. I love that there are like five clear steps that you can take, that it's not some nebulous thing anymore. I love the phrase that you said, "The process of forgiveness has oftentimes been lost in the practice." I know that I have absolutely experienced that in my own life. I think I've checked the box because I'm like, "I'm supposed to do that. Done."

Then before I know it, something will trigger and a circumstance will arise with a person that maybe I've had true unforgiveness in my heart, even though I think I've checked the box. A circumstance will arise and before I know it, I just have this overwhelming feeling of just like, "Oh, this person makes me so angry," and all those previous feelings come back up because I haven't gone through that process.

Lysa: Right.

Meredith: One of my favorite things that I just wrote down on my notes was that last step, where you say take that statement, find scripture, write it on top of that statement and tuck it in your Bible. I think that that is so important and true to what we do here at Proverbs 31, and that is reminding yourself of the truth associated, the truth, like the big T truth associated with that circumstance. By putting scripture on top of that and disassociating a little bit those feelings that maybe I want to tell you some lies.

Lysa: That's right.

Meredith: About that circumstance.

Kaley: Yeah.

Meredith: You've got the truth right in front of it and you're saying, "No, this is the truth of the circumstance. This is what God's Word says, even though my feelings may be trying to tell me something else." So good, so powerful.

Kaley: Yeah.

Lysa: Well, and here's the thing. Any time we feel offended, it's going to create energy in our life. It's negative energy, but it's creating energy to do something.

Meredith: Yeah.

Lysa: We can either walk through this process of forgiveness and use our energy for that purpose, or here's what we will do. We will rally and tally.

Meredith: Yeah, that's right.

Lysa: We will rally other people to our cause. We will open up the whispers about this person. I can't believe they did this, and oh my goodness, and have they ever done it to you and let's pray for that person, but it's not really praying for that person. It's really an excuse to talk about that person, right?

Meredith: Right.

Lysa: So, we're rallying people to our side because it makes us feel better, like we're right, you know.

Meredith: Right, right.

Lysa: We tally, all the previous things that they've done to us that have led us to this conclusion, they are really a bad person, so we're not going to feel bad about talking about them because they're such a bad person, they deserve to be talked about.

Meredith: Right.

Lysa: I'm just going to start to keep score in our relationship. That is the quickest way to kill the potential of healthy relationships. This whole rally and tally thing, but oftentimes people do this. I've done this before, because there's energy that's created. Like when someone offends me, I want to do something about it, right?

Meredith: Right.

Kaley: Right.

Lysa: I can either do something about it by rallying and tally, or I can do something about it by really taking it to the Lord. But then here's the ultimate place, and not to mess up your notes, but there's actually a step six.

Kaley: Whoa.

Meredith: Uh-oh, bonus step.

Lysa: Bonus step, step six, and I referred to it in last week's podcast, but this is where this comes in. Step six is, choose to forgive that person for the very next offense that they may create in your life. Go ahead and pre-forgive them, right?

Meredith: That's so good.

Lysa: Because the best time to forgive someone is before the offense ever happens. Go ahead and prepare your heart. Maybe if you need to in this step six, like write on your paper, "I forgive this person for the next offense that may come." It's not that we're looking for an offense, it's that we're preparing our heart to respond better.

If we need to find a scripture to prepare our heart, then go ahead and write that scripture down. But go ahead and get yourself in the mentality that the very best time to release an offense is before it ever happens, and to choose not to be offended in the first place.

Meredith: Wow.

Lysa: Remember we talked last week about the kicking the anthills, you know?

Meredith: Yes.

Kaley: Yes.

Lysa: Just because there is an anthill in your front yard, you can acknowledge it and you can deal with it, but it doesn't mean you have to kick it and stand on it and get stung by it over and over.

Meredith: Right.

Lysa: This is very similar to that process. If I acknowledge like the summer is coming and there is going to be an anthill that shows up in my yard. Instead of getting twisted up in a knot, instead of being tempted to kick it and stand on it, I'm going to go ahead and acknowledge, there may be an anthill that comes in my front yard and I'm going to pre-decide how I'm going to deal with it. I'm going to choose to deal with it the right way before the anthill ever appears. That's what I'm talking about.

Meredith: So good. That's so good.

Lysa: Step six, choose to forgive before the event ever happens.

Meredith: That's so good.

Kaley: That's leadership stuff that you probably don't find in books.

Meredith: Right.

Kaley: It's very practical, but it's not like that hardcore like textbook leadership stuff. Like leadership is about who you are as a leader and who you are and how you can forgive. It's not necessarily always about what you do, because if I'm a leader who leads well but can't forgive well, then am I really even a leader?

Meredith: Right, right. That's so good.

Kaley: What does this look like for me now as a leader in my 20s? What does it look like as a mom?

Meredith: Yeah.

Kaley: Like learning to forgive your kids or you want to forgive your husband for whatever they do. I think that this is practical on so many levels.

Meredith: Right.

Lysa: I think sometimes when we're talking about multiplied impact of unforgiveness.

Meredith: Oh gosh, yeah.

Lysa: I think part of the struggle that we have sometimes is when someone offends us, we feel like they have taken away our choice to be joyful. They have taken away our choice to be peaceful. They have taken away our choice to not be offended, right? But here's the reality. They haven’t taken away that choice.

Meredith: Right.

Lysa: If somebody offends us, we still have a choice.

Meredith: Absolutely.

Lysa: I used to tell my kids, they would come to me and they'd say, "Mom, my sister made me so angry." I was like, "Hmm, that person cannot make you angry."

Meredith: That's right.

Lysa: You have a choice. That person may have done something to you, but you have a choice to be angry or not. You still have your choice. I think over time, and over messing this up a lot, this is a hard-learned lesson, people.

Meredith: Oh my word, yes.

Lysa: Right? Because I've messed up in this area so much and I have just wasted days and tears and extreme heartbreak because I felt like I no longer had a choice. I think what God has shown me now that I got to cover up my gray hair and deal with my wrinkles, right? I think the Lord has shown me just over all this time, Lysa, you still have a choice. You can honor me in the process.

Really there is something so beautiful about a woman rising up in the middle of being deeply hurt or deeply offended, and demonstrating the beauty of still choosing to walk out biblical truth, still choosing to honor God, still choosing to look like she spent a little bit of time with Jesus this morning.

Meredith: I want to be that. I want to be that woman. I want to be that woman and I know you guys too, and I'm grateful that we have each other here at Proverbs, and in our ministry together that this is a safe place for us to do that together, and to process those hurts and find practical steps to move forward in our walk with Christ.

Kaley: Yes, yes, and I love that it's so practical that it's defined in these six steps, and that it takes time. You said at the very beginning of your teaching that forgiveness is a practice. With anything, I think the more you practice, the better that you get and the more we choose to take the time to go through these six steps, the better that we can get at forgiveness as time goes on. So, thank you so much for your teaching today, Lysa.

Lysa: You're welcome.

Meredith: So good. I'm so thankful for what the Lord is doing in and through the ministry of Proverbs 31. If you're not already connected with us at Proverbs, I would encourage you, go check us out at our website at proverbs31.org. You can check it out on your mobile phone, or a desktop, anywhere else and go.

If you don't know about our resources, you can go to the section that says Find the Resource that's Right for You, and it will lead you to all of our totally free resources to help you know the truth and live the truth, because we know that when you do, it really will change everything.

Kaley: Yeah. You mentioned free.

Meredith: I love free.

Kaley: There we go.

Meredith: I said free like five times because I love free.

Kaley: I love free, just like a free second Chick-fil-A sauce.

Meredith: Yes.

Lysa: Except, it's not free, people.

Kaley: Well, it's not free to Chick-fil-A, but it's free to me.

Meredith: Yeah.

Kaley: Just like what we do at Proverbs, it's free to you guys who are listening, but it comes at a cost to us.

Meredith: That's true.

Kaley: If you have been impacted, I know we're only two episodes in, but I'm telling you, what we've got coming on this podcast is so good, but it's free. It does come at a cost to us, and it's because we have so many generous donors who have faithfully given to what God is doing here.

Meredith: That's right, and if you feel led to give to what God's doing at Proverbs 31, we want to encourage you to do that. Go to proverbs31.org/donate, and it just takes a few minutes to make a huge impact here at Proverbs 31.

Kaley: Yeah, so thanks, everybody, for joining us for episode two of the Proverbs 31 Ministries Podcast. We can't wait to join you again next time.