The Proverbs 31 Ministries Podcast

Kaley Olson:
Hey, friends. Welcome back to the Proverbs 31 Ministries Podcast where we share biblical Truth for any girl in any season. I'm your host, Kaley Olson. I'm here with my friend and my co-host Meredith Brock. Hey, Mer.

Meredith Brock:
Hey, Kales. How are yah?

Kaley Olson:
I am good. I'm a little tired because we had a big day yesterday. Are you tired?

Meredith Brock:
Good. I am tired.

Kaley Olson:
What happened?

Meredith Brock:
You know what I had a ... my husband was real sweet and woke up with the kids this morning and I got rest. So that was a real blessing in my life because you're right, Kaley, yesterday was a huge day. We released out into the world, I like to call it a book baby. Lysa TerKeurst’s newest book, Good Boundaries and Goodbyes. We are so excited to see this message get into the hands of women around the world. And just to see what God is going to do as we dip our toes into some hard conversations but such needed conversations.

Kaley Olson:
Yeah.

Meredith Brock:
It's really exciting. It was a really exciting time. Our staff was thrilled to be able to celebrate that and really what is two years' worth of work, to get that book maybe out into the world. So it was really fun.

Kaley Olson:
Yeah. Absolutely. And for people who are just receiving their books now in the mail or maybe going to Target and seeing it on the shelves, I know for us it's been two years in the making, but for everybody else, the fun is now just getting started because Good Boundaries and Goodbyes is in the world. And I'm super excited that Proverbs 31 Ministries gets to do the very first Online Bible Study of Good Boundaries and Goodbyes in 2023. And so, we're wrapping up the year now in 2022, getting ready for all things new in 2023. And so, if you are interested in learning more about boundaries, I don't think that there's a better time of year to learn how to set boundaries than the beginning of the year. Imagine how much better 2023 could go for you if you devoted six weeks of your time to this study with us here on at Proverbs 31 Ministries Online Bible Study.
It starts January 23, 2023. You can register for free by heading over to proverbs31.org. And we've got a couple other cool things we're going to do with this study, and I'll tell you a little bit more about that at the end of the show. But today on the podcast, we're going to continue the boundaries conversation by sharing a Q&A, Lysa recently did with our staff by answering six of the most popular questions she has received about boundaries. And this episode is really cool because she goes through these questions and answers them based on what she's learned about boundaries and knows that some of the questions that were asked are ... I want to say touchy in a way, because they asked her personally, what's the biggest boundary that you've struggled with Lysa? And she shares that. And so, I'm going to share with you what she's going to answer so that you'll listen all the way through.
So first thing, Lysa's going to answer the questions about how to set boundaries when you're a people pleaser, which who doesn't resonate with that? I do. Meredith, you might not. I think that you're going to talk about that a little bit later. She's going to talk about how to set boundaries when boundaries seem kind of unforgiving and how to not be rigid about it, how to process disappointing someone when you set a boundary, and how to set boundaries with family around the holidays. It's a great conversation. I'm excited for you guys to listen to it. But be sure to hang tight after the Q&A with Lysa is over because Meredith and I are going to share a little bit about how we are personally applying what we've learned from Lysa in the season of life we are in. And we hope it'll help you even more. So without further ado, here is Lysa answering the most popular questions about boundaries.

Shae Tate:
Well, hey everybody. Lysa, happy release day.

Lysa TerKeurst:
Thank you.

Shae Tate:
I'm so excited to be here. My name is Shae Tate and I am on staff here at Proverbs 31 Ministries. And Lysa, we know who you are. I'm not going to make you introduce yourself, but I would just want to say happy release day, Good Boundaries and Goodbyes. This message that you've been working on for quite some time now is officially here and I'm so excited.

Lysa TerKeurst:
Thank you. I always feel incredibly excited and at the same time, a great desire to go hide somewhere.

Shae Tate:
I'm sure. I'm sure. Exactly.

Lysa TerKeurst:
It's a very vulnerable thing to release a book, especially a book that contains so much of my heart and my journey. And I'm really thankful. I usually say this about my messages, but I really, really, really mean it with the boundaries and goodbyes. I think I needed this message most of all, and I didn't write Good Boundaries and Goodbyes from my point of strength because I'm just so good at boundaries. I wrote from my point of struggle, but also my point of progress. And I made progress, really good progress spiritually and emotionally and relationally with boundaries. And I felt like some of my insights could help others too.

Shae Tate:
Totally. I mean, I know how much this message has helped me. And what you may not know wherever you're tuning in from, is that whenever Lysa writes a book, all of us walk through it with her as well, even our staff here at Proverbs 31 Ministries. And that's what we're actually doing right now, we’re at a staff gathering and just wanted to spend some time answering some behind-the-scenes questions. And so, maybe if you submitted some questions yesterday on Instagram, one of yours made the cut. So Lysa, let's go ahead and dive in. The first question is from a gal that said, "I'm a people pleaser, and the concept of boundaries has caused me great anxiety. Do you have any steps for growth in this?"

Lysa TerKeurst:
OK. Well, I'm going to start off with confession time. Hello, my name is Lysa. I also have struggled with people pleasing. So, first off, I want to say you're not alone. Here's where I had to get really honest with myself. I think I was struggling with boundaries and people pleasing because I didn't understand that I wasn't just people pleasing to keep other people happy. I was trying to keep other people happy, so they didn't take for me whatever it was that they were giving to me that I feared I wouldn't be okay if they took it away. So, because I feared if I drew a boundary that that person... the consequence to me might be that they removed themselves or they removed support or they remove their approval or whatever it was.
I at times have decided that the pain of not having the boundary was worth dealing with. So, I didn't have to fear them taking away whatever they were giving me. But it also wore me down. It wore me down to a frazzled and sometimes fractured version of myself. So, one thing that I had to do to make peace with this was to say to myself, "If I draw a healthy boundary with this person and they reject me, then that's the person that will probably eventually reject me anyhow. And if I fear that I won't be okay, if they take away their approval or whatever it is that they're giving me, then maybe I've gone beyond just needing that from them or desiring that from them to demanding that from them." And so in essence, me, people pleasing was actually a form of control. And that wasn't fun for me to admit at all because I don't really consider myself that controlling of a person until I'm in a situation that I'm talking about now, fearing that they'll remove themselves or remove something that I'm getting from them.
But an even deeper spiritual truth for me was I will always desperately want from other people what I fear I will not ultimately get from God. And so, one way that I really made progress in this area was to work on living from a place of acceptance. God has already accepted me, so I don't need to walk around begging other people for scraps of acceptance. I'm living from a place of love. I don't need to walk around begging other people to make me feel loved and to make me feel okay in this world. And it's great to have needs with other people, but it's not okay to demand that they give you what we really should be getting from God. And so, it took me on a longer journey than just saying, "Hey, I struggle with boundaries because I struggle with people pleasing." I think I struggle with boundaries because I struggle with people pleasing because I'm trying to keep other people happy because I fear losing whatever it is that they're getting from me. And ultimately, it was a form of control.
And I think on the flip side of this, healthy people respect healthy boundaries. And if I want my life to be full of healthy people, then I can really tell a lot about the state of that relationship. Because if you're in a relationship with someone who's healthy and you draw a healthy boundary, they will appreciate the clarity of communication around that. And so, I think it's a good way for me to gauge, am I attracting healthy relationships or am I attracting relationships that almost require me to please them so that I don't have to fear them going away?

Shae Tate:
Yeah. That's so good. I mean, so many things I could tag onto that as someone that would also identify as a people pleaser. But I love how this gal said it causes her great anxiety because I think that's so true. There's so much anxiety with trying to process this whole concept of boundaries. But what I love is that your book makes it so practical. And so, one of those things that you've really helped me with is actually in this next question, so, I'm excited about it. Okay. So, someone asked, "How do I put up a boundary or deny access to someone without looking or being unforgiving?"

Lysa TerKeurst:
Yeah. Such a good question. I haven't worried as much about looking unforgiving as I have being unkind or maybe even seeming un-Christian. And I think for a long time I really struggled with boundaries because it felt a little bit cruel. It felt at times to me, even a little unbiblical. And I would hear versus in my head, constantly like, "You're supposed to lay down your life for your friends. Didn't Jesus model this? Didn't He require this?" And yes, Jesus did lay down His life, but it was for a high and holy purpose. It wasn't to enable bad behavior to continue. And so, when we think about, since it was specifically about unforgiveness, when we think about forgiveness, forgiveness is always two parts. It's fact and impact. You can forgive for the fact of what happened, and that can be a moment in time, a decision that you make.
But in dealing with the impact that their actions have on you, that may require some boundary considerations, that may mean that you don't stay close enough to that person, that if they don't change, they continue to hurt you, harm you, or devastate you in any way. When Jesus said, "We have to forgive 70 times seven." Knowing Jesus' character and watching how Jesus had such a heart for those who were being abused or those who were having injustice done to them. I don't think that Jesus intends for us to stay right with that person who's harming us or hurting us. And that's a more biblical way.
I think what Jesus was saying is create enough distance for their safety and stability for you that if this person does not stop the behavior that's hurting you, that from a distance you can forgive them 70 times seven without getting destroyed in the process. So, I think when we think about is a boundary unforgiving, I think if we've made the choice to forgive for the facts of what happened, it is OK, it is Christian, it is acceptable by God to walk through the healing process of dealing with the impact that their actions had on you and drawing realistic boundaries to follow.

Shae Tate:
Yeah. Something I've heard you say before is, “boundaries don't take away from us being the best version of ourselves. They actually allow for us to be the best version of ourselves.” And so, I love how you broke that down. That was helpful. OK. This question says, "Setting boundaries will probably mean someone will be disappointed in me and my limitations. How can I process this in a healthy way?" And this question, actually in a funny way, made me think of your dog Givey and how he might be disappointed with you in some boundaries that you've had to put up with him. We've seen some of that on your Instagram that maybe Givey needs some boundaries. So, I don't know if you want to answer this about your current status with Givey or just us in general, but yeah, tell us a little bit about the disappointment part of this.

Lysa TerKeurst:
OK. Well, yes. Sometimes when you draw boundaries, people are going to be disappointed because this is you establishing ... I mean, really how I want us to think about boundaries is not this big hard thing that we're adding to a relationship and creating some difficulty in the relationship. What a boundary is, is clear communication that allows you to fight for the relationship, so that we don't fight so much against each other. So it's really just providing clear communication. That's what a boundary is lovingly, and not trying to punish another person, manipulate another person or control another person. Those things are not examples of healthy boundaries. A healthy boundary is clear communication. So, of course, sometimes boundaries are going to disappoint other people because it means you're going to have to say no when they want you to say yes. But your definition of healthy and if this relationship is healthy or not healthy should not rise and fall on keeping this other person happy.
Them being happy cannot be your definition of a healthy relationship, right? And of course, we want to be happy in relationships, but we want to be the healthy version of that. And so, disappointment is part of the process, but it's to make space for being able to say, yes to the best parts of that relationship and to have clear communication about what is and is not acceptable in the relationship. Now let's get to Givey. I am a boundary failure when it comes to Givey. I'm just going to admit it. I have such good intentions to draw such good boundaries with my dog, for those of you who don't know. And I just love Givey so much that I violate my own message. I do. I violate my own message with Givey. Somebody else says, I'm not good at boundaries with my dog. And I just want to say, me too.
I'm right there with you. I'll give you an example. This morning I was eating toast, and Givey loves toast. Now how Givey knows he loves toast is because he's whimpered for toast. Before when I was eating toast and I gave him some, now he's currently on a toast obsession. That's really what's happening. And so, I laid in bed this morning, I'm eating my toast, drinking my coffee. Givey is begging for the toast. And I know clearly, I should not give him the toast. I know clearly, I should not, but I'm just tired of hearing him whimper. And so, I just break off a piece and give it to him. But that wasn't good enough. So, break off another piece and I give it to him and that wasn't good enough. And then, the toast is done and he's still whimpering for toast. So, I think, you know what? I'm just going to go make him two pieces of his own toast. OK? It's book release day. I'm just —

Shae Tate:
He should be able to celebrate too. Right? Yeah.

Lysa TerKeurst:
You shouldn't be able to celebrate too. And I don't want to deal with it. I just don't want to deal with his crying.

Shae Tate:
It’s totally good.

Lysa TerKeurst:
So, I go make him two pieces of his own toast. I toast it perfectly. I butter it and everything. And I mean, I clearly know I'm not supposed to be giving buttered toast to my dog, OK? But he hasn't gotten sick from it. He has a really good, strong stomach.

Shae Tate:
He's a resilient dog is what she's saying. Yeah.

Lysa TerKeurst:
So, I'm making these two pieces of toast. I put it on a napkin, and I put it on the carpet where he absolutely loves to eat my toast. And then I give him two whole pieces of toast and he goes up and sniffs it and he looks at me and he didn't want it because he only wants the toast that I want. And so, I pick up the toast and I pretend like, "Oh, I love this toast." And I pick off a piece and he eats it. So, I am a boundary failure when it comes —

Shae Tate:
I mean, there's so much we could unpack here, but —

Lysa TerKeurst:
I agree.

Shae Tate:
For the sake of time, I'm going to keep us moving. But maybe God gave you Givey as a humble reminder just to keep making progress in this area. Yes.

Lysa TerKeurst:
I agree. And I think my family would love for me to make more progress in the area of Givey.

Shae Tate:
Yes. Yes. Well, imperfect progress is still progress, so that's OK. OK. So, this question says, "The holidays are around the corner. What do boundaries look like within family dynamics?" This one's hard.

Lysa TerKeurst:
Well, it's challenging because when you get together with the holidays, there's forced connection that the rest of the year you can navigate with distance. But with the holidays, for me, it's, I simultaneously want to be with my family, but I also have some anxiety that builds up if certain family members that have dynamics about them that cause me anxiety if they're going to be there. So, my counselor says we prepare in times of strength for coming times of struggle. And so, today is a great time to read Good Boundaries and Goodbyes and start preparing in this time of strength for the potential struggle that may or may not happen at Thanksgiving or Christmas or during the holidays, whatever holiday you're celebrating. So here's what I would say. Let's say that Uncle Jason is coming to Thanksgiving and Uncle Jason loves to bring up politically charged topics at the Thanksgiving table.
And you already know, or I already know, that I'm going to be a little limited in my emotional capacity to handle that because putting on Thanksgiving is going to be taxing. I'm going to be tired. And when I'm tired, my emotions can sometimes run a little thin. And so, it's going to be important for me not to try to control him and not to try to manipulate him because I don't want to put a boundary on him to try to force him to limit his conversation. But I do need to inform him that if he brings up politically charged topics, that I will either turn to the other end of the table and continue conversation on a different subject. Or I will remove myself from that situation because I already know I'm going to have limited emotional capacity. And if I get pulled into a conversation when I'm already worn thin, I could potentially have a reaction at the Thanksgiving table that does not represent my true intentions. And Thanksgiving, I'm thankful for my people.
But if I'm so worn out that I have a little moment where I don't exercise self-control, then it is not going to appear that I'm very thankful for all people, right? And it's my responsibility not to control him, but it is my responsibility to know what I need to stay self-controlled, so that I can love others without losing the best of who I am, so I can inform him of my decision. I don't have to ask permission. I don't have to say, "This is what's going to happen. OK?" I don't have to do that. But I just need to inform him, and I can, if I choose to say this is because I don't have the emotional fortitude to have politically charged conversations around the Thanksgiving table because I already know that it's not going to bring up the best of me, and I want to keep the best of me front and center for this year's Thanksgiving.

Shae Tate:
What I love about what you said about that is it took that question from thinking about, "Oh, what am I going to do about them?" And you really answered it to, “What am I going to do myself?” Like putting us back in the driver's seat to make decisions because sometimes I think when we're talking about boundaries, we can feel so powerless to what other people are doing. And so, I love how you even just gave us a practical script of how we can have that in our toolbox and walk into a situation just not feeling so caught off guard or ill-equipped. So ...

Lysa TerKeurst:
Yeah. And I think this is one of the big differences between Good Boundaries and Goodbyes and maybe other messages on boundaries. First of all, it's going to give you the biblical confidence to know that boundaries are not just a good idea, their God's idea. And so, I do a lot of work, theological work throughout the book to give you biblical confidence. But also, it's a paradigm shift. And the paradigm shift really is boundaries are not for the purpose of controlling or containing or trying to change another person. That's where I made the mistake with boundaries for so long, I kept putting pressure on other people with my boundary hoping to get them to change. But if they are unwilling or possibly incapable of the necessary changes, I must learn how to put the boundary on myself, so that I can end conversations when they need to be ended. Lovingly and kindly.
I can remove myself from situations that are unsafe or unstable or just not good for the best of me to be front and center in those relationships. And I don't have to feel so stuck, so powerless, so unable to make a situation better. I have to remember, I always, always am responsible to remain self-controlled. It's my responsibility to decide the situations that I give access to or the people that I give access to. When I say access, I mean access to my limited capacity. I have limited capacity in my finances, in my emotions, in my time. And so, it's my responsibility to acknowledge those limitations, not because I'm mean, but because I'm human. Only God has a limitless supply, right? And in essence, I don't ever want to step into that place where I pretend like I'm so limitless that I'm potentially a God in their life and I'm not responsible for them. And we never want to be in a situation where we're trying to work harder on someone else than they're willing to work on themselves.

Shae Tate:
So good. OK. So, you already talked about Givey and that's in progress, but what's been the hardest boundary for you to set and maintain personally?

Lysa TerKeurst:
I think the hardest boundary for me to set and maintain is when people make requests of me. And I always have this thought, I can do that. And that's part of what makes me feel guilty for saying no. Especially if someone says, "Can I have five minutes of your time?" And I want to give them five minutes of my time. But the reality is if I give them five minutes of my time, then it's going to cost me with whatever I'm now going to run late to. So, either I need to build into my schedule blocks of buffer time and then be willing to say yes to whoever asks for five minutes of my time inside one of those buffers. So I don't get completely bankrupted in that.
But the other thing too, when somebody says, "I want five minutes of time." It's never five minutes. That's the other part of this. So, if they want 20 minutes, they ask for five minutes and I only give them five minutes, I'm still going to be a disappointment to them. And so, I have learned to properly reflect my heart to say this script, "While my heart says yes, yes, yes, the reality of my time makes this a no, I cannot do that, but here's what I can do." And that has helped me not feel so badly or so uncaring. But it is an area where I would say personally, I still struggle with that.

Shae Tate:
I love that. Another script that I think I can put into my toolbox. That's really helpful. OK. Last question: How do you balance the all or nothing mentality with boundaries?

Lysa TerKeurst:
Well, boundaries are the very thing that should protect us from extremes. You see, here's where I used to go wrong. I would either, on this end, I would either just ignore the need for a boundary and try to deal with whatever was happening that I knew I shouldn't deal with. But I just didn't want to create unnecessary conflict and I didn't know how to say it. And so, whatever was on this end, I was just constantly giving in or on this end, I would give in so much to where I just couldn't take it anymore. And I would jump to the opposite extreme of just saying no more. But you see boundaries help us bring that to the middle. Boundaries, help us avoid the extremes of all or nothing. Boundaries should help us provide a way to have conversations with clarity and kindness that establish, in order for the relationship to continue in a healthy way, this is what I will accept. This is what I will not accept. This is what I do have to give, this is what I do not have to give. This is what is OK, and this is not OK. Those kinds of considerations. And I think people, especially healthy people, appreciate the clarity of where is the freedom in this relationship? Because if we don't know where the freedom is, we're always going to tiptoe with this person. Is this, OK? Is this not, OK? Is this, OK? Is this not, OK? And so, for me, I appreciate when people provide clarity for me, so I don't have to guess what they're thinking or feeling.

Shae Tate:
That's so good. Thank you, Lysa. Thanks for answering some of these questions. I know I personally have had some resistance to this message and trying to figure out how to walk all this out. And it's been so helpful just to hear you process this over the last couple of years. And now, your book is finally here, and I think just even hearing you talk about it more in person makes me so excited.

Kaley Olson:
All right, Meredith, we're back. And you know what? We promised our listeners that we would share how Lysa's message and Good Boundaries and Goodbyes has helped us personally in this season of our life. So, do you want to go first?

Meredith Brock:
Sure.

Kaley Olson:
You can go first.

Meredith Brock:
I'll go first. Kaley, I remember when Lysa was first exploring this idea of writing about boundaries. And I was like, "Oh, this is going to be a book that doesn't really apply to me." Because in my mind, boundaries had always been for people who didn't know how to say no. And I really have a hard time telling people, no. It's not challenging for me when somebody says, "Hey Meredith, can you bring my kid home from school today?" If I have something going on, it's not hard for me to be like, Oh, I'd love to do that, but I just can't." I don't walk away from that conversation feeling all this weight and guilt. But what I have learned through this boundaries message as Lysa processed it with us, and as I've read it, is boundaries isn't necessarily about having a hard time saying no.
It's really about keeping yourself in a position where you can be the healthiest, best person that you can. And for me, I have learned what that looks like is I have a propensity to want to save people. When someone is facing a challenge or somebody I love is hurting. I like to try to swoop in and save them. And I have learned that, that will push me to my absolute limit in an unhealthy way. And I think there’s certain people in my life who have learned that I will swoop in and save them. And so, they have rolled into a passive position with me that they’re like, “Oh, Meredith will just fix that.” And so, I have really had to learn to set some boundaries in that area of like, "No. That is not my job to fix that." That is your responsibility to pursue how to fix that in your life.
Could I be a resource for you to process some things with? Yes. But do I need to actually step in, not necessarily depending on the relationship. And so, it's been something that I've really had to work through a little bit and learn. I'm still very much in the midst of it. I mean, I just told … Kaley was trying to pressure me into telling you guys this, but I'm going to go ahead and tell you, ask for forgiveness from my husband right now. But you all, no kidding. I am in the middle of a secret mission. It's called picking ... I am on strike from picking up the bath towels. I refuse to do it. I have not told anyone in my family that I am no longer picking up their bath towels.
And it's been going on for a few days now. The bathroom floor has gotten so out of control, there has been towels all over it. And this morning, I woke up and walked into the bathroom and all the towels were in a pile. I am uncertain if this is progress or not. Have they gathered the towels for me to just pick them up all in one swoop? Maybe that's progress. But I am, this is an experiment of boundaries for me, Kaley, to see, I can't save them from their own dirty decisions.
I will not dry my body off with a dirty towel. They can. So listeners, if you have any advice, you let me know. I would love to hear, has anyone else gone on a towel pickup strike? Because I'm in the middle of one right now, and it's intense. We'll see where it end.

Kaley Olson:
Yeah. Yeah. Well, thank you. Thank you for indulging our listeners with your operation tell strike situation. But well, I was going to ask you how you were practically living out, stopping yourself from swooping in to save the day. So, I'm glad that you … I know it was a funny illustration. And yeah, thank you Mack for letting Meredith tell this without your permission. It's fine. You all can work that out on your own time. But it's funny. But to me, it's a very practical way to even see progress happening on the other side. So, when we're struggling with swooping in to save the day, we know things are going to be messy. And I think that we have to be OK with seeing someone's, seeing someone get messy in their life and have to watch knowing, OK, I'm going to stand at a distance and maybe make sure you're still OK, but you've got to learn how to do this on your own rather than relying on me to always come in.
And even the fact that you walked in and saw the towels in a pile, you're still observing closely enough to the people who you love and watching them make progress to know you're not completely abandoning them, you're never going to help them again, but you're still there able to see the progress. And if things were to go sideways, you could step in again and help them in a way that maybe had a little bit more structure of a boundary around that. But I just love how even a silly towel illustration seems so practical of an example with maybe something that was more intense than a towel situation in someone else's life. So thank you for sharing that. That was helpful, really helpful.

Meredith Brock:
You tell me, Kaley, what are you learning about boundaries?

Kaley Olson:
Well, I like you, was a little resistant to the idea of boundaries because I think sometimes when I first heard about the message of boundaries, to me it seemed like boundaries were only needed for red flag situations.
So, I'm kind of like you and the "Well, I'll just come in and do this for someone, or I didn't really see a need for really intensive boundaries in my life because I didn't see a lot of red flag type of dysfunction." But I think I'm in the season of my life where I've been in this season for a while. So, I'm 31 years old, been married for seven years, have a little boy. So, I'm very clearly adulting using air quotes right now for those of you listening, because you know what I mean, whenever I say that word. But learning to be an adult and a parent with adult parents or other adults in my life is very interesting. And I did. And I use the word interesting because I don't think that anybody or anything can ever really prepare you for this season. It's not like graduating from college or getting your driver's license.
It's a season we find ourselves in and all of a sudden, we're like, "Oh, wait a minute. I'm the decision maker now." Or "Oh, wait a minute, this is weird." And I think there's probably a lot of people listening who understand this predicament that I can find myself in. And sometimes my tendency as an adult around other adults is to feel the need to prove myself right or over explain the decisions that I make. And so, when I say this … Meredith just got a notification, you can tell them to listen to this podcast episode later, it's fine, I'm going to keep going. But for me, this, I am not talking about any negative interactions I've had in my family. But what I've noticed is as an adult, sometimes I go back to some maybe childlike tendencies to feel the need to over explain a decision that I as an adult made that was an informed decision for my family, that maybe my husband and I made together. That might not have been a decision that either my parents or other adults in my family would make.
It doesn't make one party right, or the other person or that other party wrong. And so, as I've been learning how to adult around other adults and get away from this tendency to over explain myself, something that has been helpful to me is both Lysa's book and this verse in the Bible from Proverbs 15:1. I'm going to read both in just a moment. But the verse from Proverbs 15:1 is “A gentle answer turns away wrath, but a harsh word stirs up anger” (NIV). And so, when I think about heading into these conversations, this verse from Proverbs 15:1, “a gentle answer turns away wrath …” means I've got to pre-decide what my response is going to be, rather than getting caught off guard in a moment when somebody might ask me about a decision that I made. I can choose ahead of time how much information I want to share about why I made a certain decision rather than getting caught off guard in the moment.
And it being a little, maybe rash or heated might be the word. And so, the quote that Lysa shares in her book is, “Better reactions lead to better conversations. Better conversations lead to better relationships and better relationships lead to better living.” And so, for me to practically live this out is, like I said, to be prepared on the front end to know how much information I might want to share or might not want to share about a decision that was made that was an informed decision as an adult when a family member might ask me about that. Or to go into a conversation with an adult mindset and try to be as mature as possible. Where if someone asks me something that does catch me off guard and I'm not prepared for it, knowing my response can simply be, "You know what? I don't really know the best way to answer that question right now. Can I come back to you tomorrow and answer that?"
I think as an adult child of parents who are now adults, so we're all adulting together in the season of life, coming back with a vague response sometimes can feel a little like, I'm not giving them what they want, but that's OK for me. And if it's going to protect my response to not get overheated or maybe say something that I'm going to regret coming to them and just saying, " You know what? Can we talk about this tomorrow?” Is a great way to continue the conversation in a healthy way. And so, that's super on the ground practical for me in terms of boundaries. But that's been one thing that's just been really, really helpful for me. And I'm excited to see it help me for years to come, even as I raise my own kid down the road.
So, I think Meredith, you and I could talk about boundaries for a long time because there's so much to unpack as we've both seen our resistance to the message about boundaries. But then reading what Lysa has written and hearing about what God has taught her has made us see that this conversation is something that so many people need in their life. Because I think other people are like us where they might not really see the need for boundaries. And so, I'm excited that Proverbs, like I said at the beginning of this episode, is doing the Online Bible Study on Good Boundaries and Goodbyes. Because Meredith, you and I both know that setting boundaries, a key part to setting boundaries is having people in your life who know what boundaries are setting and can help you reinforce those boundaries whenever you might want to swoop in and save the day and pick up the towels again.
And so that's community. You find support in setting boundaries in community. And that's what you guys are going to find with Proverbs 31 Online Bible Studies and doing Good Boundaries and Goodbyes with us starting January 23, 2023. Go ahead and mark your calendars for that date and sign up for free@proverbsthirtyone.org. And Meredith, I know a lot of people can study Good Boundaries and Goodbyes, you can study on your own. And so, you might be thinking, "Why do I want to wait until January to study this?" Well, one, you definitely want to study with community, but there's a couple more things you'll get when you study Good Boundaries and Goodbyes with Proverbs 31. First, you get access to those weekly study videos with Lysa TerKeurst. And I know Meredith, you were on the inside and got to see all of the content that Lysa prepared so hard for when she was recording those videos.
And they're so good. So, you'll get access to all of those weekly study videos to continue learning about boundaries. But we've also got access to Lysa's personal license counselor, Jim Cress, who I know Meredith, he contributed a little bit to the book, but he also recorded some short videos for you guys that are like mini counseling sessions. So, he takes topics from the book and presents them in a way that make you feel like you've got a little mini counseling session with Jim Cress. And so super excited for you guys to be part of this study. Meredith, how can they get Good Boundaries and Goodbye?

Meredith Brock:
Well, if you haven't already gotten it, you need to head on over to Proverbs 31 bookstores. You can go to proverbs31.org/bookstore and purchase it there. And you all, I'm here to tell you what Kaley just talked about, the weekly study videos from Lysa and those from Jim Cress, you won't be able to get those anywhere else. This is exclusive to the Online Bible Study. And for a limited time only, this is not going to be available. So, make sure you sign up Online Bible Study and don't miss out on this really special, unique opportunity. And Kaley, I need community to help me with my boundaries.

Kaley Olson:
I know me too.

Meredith Brock:
Reminding you right now. Next week, please send me a text message and ask me about the towel strike. OK? And I'll let you know how ... OK. That is all for today friends. At Proverbs 31, we believe when you know the truth and live the truth, it really will change everything.