The Proverbs 31 Ministries Podcast

Meredith Brock:
Hi, friends. Thanks for tuning in to the Proverbs 31 Ministries podcast. I'm your host, Meredith Brock, and I am here with my cohost, Kaley Olson.

Kaley Olson:
Well, hey, Meredith. Today's episode is just a little different, but I'm excited to share with my friends what they're going to hear. I know after years of working at Proverbs 31, sometimes just getting to sit with Lysa TerKeurst in a meeting, I always whip out my phone and take notes. You know what that's like, right?

Meredith Brock:
[crosstalk 00:00:33] Yes. Absolutely.

Kaley Olson:
She just spews little nuggets of wisdom and they just stick with me. So you guys, if you have ever wanted to just listen to Lysa TerKeurst share with her heart in a very conversational way, this is your episode. And I'm so excited about it because Lysa is going to speak to the struggles you might be facing in the middle of a hard season, and this episode is going to be really, really encouraging for you guys.

Meredith Brock:
That's right. Our friend, Shae Tate, who you guys have heard from her before, sat down with Lysa to ask her a few questions about a special project she's been working on, a devotional called, Seeing Beautiful Again. You guys know that Lysa's story of redemption is so powerful, but the journey to get there was not easy. It was very hard. This conversation is a reflection of what Lysa chose to do in the midst of that struggle in order to be able to see beautiful again. She'll answer questions like: how to hold space for both sorrow and celebration at the same time, and what to do when we feel like God is far away, and advice for getting into God's word on the hard days, which I don't know about you, but I've had some hard days and it's hard to get into God's word on those hard days.

Kaley Olson:
I know, but even hearing from her be so honest about her own experience, it's comforting because sometimes you listen to somebody on the podcast or you see somebody like Lysa who is this great figure of faith, but- [crosstalk 00:01:53].

Meredith Brock:
Yeah. You think they have it all together all the time. [crosstalk 00:01:55].

Kaley Olson:
Yes. Yes, and I love how honest she is, but before we let you guys listen to their conversation, we want to tell you about two things. So, we just mentioned the devotional, Seeing Beautiful Again, and before it releases on March 30 of 2021, if you're listening to this sometime in the future, before then, if you pre-order it, you'll get access to some really cool things, like a never before it heard episode of Therapy and Theology, which you guys love and we love around here too. Second thing is we know Easter is right around the corner and our team has pulled together some great resources to make this season even more special. If you're a parent, there are resources for your kids. But I know as adult I'm always looking for ways to keep Easter more fresh and meaningful in my life just to not let it get stagnant. So the Easter collection has great resources in there for you as well and it's alive today at P31bookstore.com. All right, friends. Here's the conversation with Lysa TerKeurst and Shae Tate.

Lysa TerKeurst:
Hi, I'm Lysa TerKeurst. Thanks so much for being with us today. This is my good friend and teammate, Shae Tate.

Shae Tate:
Hi, everybody.

Lysa TerKeurst:
So Shae, we've been working on a project for a pretty long time while where I went into my personal journal and then also, some favorite pieces and parts of my past couple of books, It's Not Supposed to Be This Way, and, Forgiving What You Can't Forget, and some letters, very private, personal, straight to the reader's heart letters that I've written. We put them all in a new devotional called [crosstalk 00:03:26] Seeing Beautiful Again. So I'm really excited about this project. Shae, I knew you had some questions that you wanted to ask me and I think you'll enjoy this discussion.

Shae Tate:
Yeah. So I just wanted to sit with you today and ask you some questions that I would love to know or I think our friends at home would love to know since this devotion really is like a personal extension out of your own journal. So I know we just said the title, but it's called, Seeing Beautiful Again. So how did you decide on this title and what does that phrase, "seeing beautiful again," mean to you?

Lysa TerKeurst:
Such a good question. So in 2019, my word for the year was, "beautiful," and I really wanted to take a look at being more intentional with finding beauty, seeing beauty, choosing a beautiful perspective and creating beauty for friends and family. So that word became such a filter through which I looked at life. I did it because I usually like to choose a word for the year and that one just seemed appropriate for that year. But what happened is I noticed the more beautiful things I looked for, the more beautiful perspectives I desired to see, the more beauty that it felt like it was all around me. I thought to myself, it's not because my circumstances have changed. It's not because suddenly, people all around me were just acting in perfect ways. It wasn't that all of my relationships suddenly just became amazingly beautiful. It was the intentionality of wanting to find beauty, and when you look for it, you start to see it.
It reminds me of that verse in Matthew 5:8 (NIV) that says, "Blessed are the pure in heart, for they shall see God." It doesn't mean blessed is that perfect person. It means blessed is that person who desires to see God. For them, they certainly will. It's not that we see God's physical form, but we start to see evidence of God's faithfulness in more clear ways, and that's really what happened with beautiful. I just started to see it more clearly than ever before and I thought more people need to learn how to see beautiful again.

Shae Tate:
Yeah, I love that. And I love how you already said what I was going to say, is that seeing beautiful, a prerequisite for seeing beautiful is not that your circumstances are perfect or that your life is tidy, but just that there's intentionality around what you're looking for. So I love that. That's so good. Okay. So one of the promises you have for us as readers in this new devotional is that we will gain healthier ways to process our pain and learn to see our situations through truth-based perspectives. I love that. So, what are one of those truth-based perspectives maybe that you've been clinging to or that has been the most helpful to you maybe recently?

Lysa TerKeurst:
Well, in the book, I wrote one of the devotions about being at a speaking engagement and one of the questions I got during the Q&A portion was this gal raised her hand and just said, "Why is God doing nothing?" She was at a really hard circumstance and I've very much related to the angst of her question. So I don't even know where the answer came from, except I think I naturally just have gone through so many hard things that I've naturally trained my brain to remember, even when it seems that God is doing nothing, to remember we don't serve a do-nothing God. God is always working behind the scenes and sometimes we have to remember, God does his best work sometimes in the unseen.
So there's always going to be gaps in our life where we don't really understand what's happening. I am training my brain not to fill in the gaps. Instead of filling in the gaps and making assumptions about what God is or is not doing, I let the gaps sit there and I see that as a space for grace where I need to invite God in. God isn't trying to be far off, distant and mysterious. He doesn't want to be explained away. God wants to be invited in. So when there's gaps in understanding or there's a day where I think, "Where are you, God? Why aren't you doing something about this? You promised to be there for me, but I don't feel like that you are there for me,' I stop myself and say, "God is never a do-nothing God. I'm going to take this unknown and instead of making assumptions, I'm going to fill this space with grace and prayer."

Shae Tate:
Yeah, that's so good. I love how you talk about, even though we're seeing beautiful or we're trying to see beautiful, there definitely is an element of the unseen work of God in that. So I love that phrase, "God is not a do-nothing God." That's one of my favorite. So, one of the devotionals in, Seeing Beautiful Again, talks about how we can hold both sorrow and celebration in both of our hands at the same time. Can you tell me a little bit about what that means?

Lysa TerKeurst:
Sometimes I think we're in seasons where we define it as this is a season of sorrow, this is a season of celebration, and we kind of think we have to choose one or the other. But what God has really been teaching me is our days, our experiences, our situations, our seasons can be both. And they can be both, a season of sorrow and a season of celebration and they can coexist together. One thing that I wrote about in the book was sometimes when we go through hard times and maybe we've had a relationship that disintegrated, and then we're walking through her house and we see a picture of that person and it could be a best friend, it could be a romantic relationship that fell apart, it could be a marriage that fell apart, it can be so many different things. So it used to be that we would see this picture of this person, it would be like, "Oh man, look at this fun time we had."
But if the relationship disintegrates or that person walks away, we can look at that picture and just feel like, "Okay, that's no longer a picture of celebration. That's a picture of sorrow." It can almost feel like our pain of today needs to go back and rewrite the history of yesterday-

Shae Tate:
And it stings.

Lysa TerKeurst:
And it stings and it hurts, and then we don't know what to do with these pictures. So what I'm a big advocate for is your memories are your memories. If it was a season of celebration then, you can still enjoy the celebration and you don't have to go back and tear up the picture. It's your choice. If you want to put the picture away, then put the picture away. But if that picture meant something good and beautiful to you, leave it there because you get to choose what you do with your memories. You don't have to let pain rewrite the memories of the past.

Shae Tate:
That's so good. And not just your memories from the past, right? It can be what's happening today.

Lysa TerKeurst:
That's right.

Shae Tate:
I could probably have multiple sorrow and celebration moments even before lunch sometimes.

Lysa TerKeurst:
That's right.

Shae Tate:
And I think holding both of those at the same time, that both and perspective, is just something that's been so freeing for me, to not have to put yourself in a box as, like you said, an all sorrows season or an all celebration season.

Lysa TerKeurst:
Yeah, and how that can play out of sight. You can have a series of things that happen before 8:00 AM and you're like, "This is a bad day."

Shae Tate:
Exactly.

Lysa TerKeurst:
Well, no, the day's not bad.

Shae Tate:
Right.

Lysa TerKeurst:
The situations may have not been pleasant, but this isn't denying your feelings. However, it's realizing your feelings are indicators, not dictators. They can indicate, yes. There's some hard things I need to attend to, but they don't have to dictate today is a bad day. You can still intentionally find beautiful, even in this day that some hard things happen early on. Today is a gift, and that's what God says. So we just need to approach it as if I'm going to look for the gift of today.

Shae Tate:
Yeah. That's so good. I love that. So we've talked a lot about ourselves maybe being in hard or hurtful situations, but let's shift a little bit to talking about maybe a friend that's in a really hard season or heartbreaking season, or just going through some devastation. So is there a way that we can actually bring beautiful into their lives or help them see beautiful, or maybe you could share a memory or something that someone did for you that really helped you see beautiful when you were in that really hard place?

Lysa TerKeurst:
I would. One of the best things that someone did for me when I was in a really hard place is, they chose to listen and restrain from giving advice.

Shae Tate:
Wow.

Lysa TerKeurst:
Now, if I asked for their advice, then that's one thing. But sometimes the greatest gift of beautiful you can give to somebody is to listen, and then when they share hard things, just to look at them and say, "I believe you." Maybe even then ask them, say, "Hey, what is something that would make your day a little brighter, a little more beautiful today?" Now, they're probably not going to say like, "Oh, if you brought me flowers," because that can feel a little presumptuous, but you can ask the question like, "Hey..." I sent a text message to a friend just today. She's going through some surgery on Friday and I asked her, "Okay, if someone was going to do something kind for you, would you rather have chocolate, flowers, or..." What was the last one? "... or a massage certificate, gift certificate to go do something like massage or manicure or whatever?" And of course she said, "Oh no, you don't have to do anything." And I'm like, "Okay, you're right. I don't, but if someone were..." [crosstalk 00:13:12].
So it gave her an opportunity to say, "Wow, chocolate. That's the best way to love on me." So I think, again, listen with intentionality. Don't always feel the pressure that you have to solve their problems or give them the ultimate advice because sometimes a great thing you can do for somebody is just to say, "I believe you."

Shae Tate:
Yeah. Another thing that you've said before is having a friend that will pray more words for you than they're speaking to you or about you. And I think that goes hand in hand with the listening here.

Lysa TerKeurst:
Absolutely.

Shae Tate:
Yeah. I love that. That's so good. Okay. So, when so many of us are going through a hard time and with this being a devotional, so it's kind of like a tool for daily time with God. When you're in a really hard season, it can feel so tiresome or really just challenging to get into God's word at all. So if someone is in that place today, what would you say to them maybe about this devotional or just in general? How can we get into God's word when we're just in that really tough spot?

Lysa TerKeurst:
I would say give yourself permission to make this a one or two verse a day. Sometimes I'll just take a verse and I'll even just take a couple of words of that verse and I'll let my mind park there. I just always ask myself the question, "Am I reading this, or am I letting this read me?" Because I kind of want both. I want to read God's word, then I want God's word to read me, but don't feel like you have to do deep study of a whole chapter of a Bible today. If you can, that's amazing. But if you're feeling worn thin, I think it's better to choose one verse than no verse.

Shae Tate:
Yeah. That's so good. And you're a Bible teacher, so hearing you say that makes me feel like I can do that too. That's really great. I love that. Okay. So last question, I'd love for you to camp out on this for a little bit and give us some practical ways that maybe this has colored your world, but when nothing feels beautiful inside of us or around us at all, whether that is our circumstances, or maybe we're struggling with mental health, or we have a relationship that's causing a lot of grief in our life, what are some ways that we can actually experience or cultivate beauty in our life? Or maybe what are some ways that you're experiencing beauty right now all around you in unexpected ways?

Lysa TerKeurst:
That's a great question. So I have decided to give myself permission to explore some of the arts that I haven't done since a very long time. So just last week, we got together and you and I painted together. If you read my book, It's Not Supposed to Be This Way, painting became such a beautiful expression and it wasn't about the quality of art. It wasn't about creating fine art. It wasn't even about taking the piece, framing it and putting it up in my house. But what I always do when I create some painting or drawing, and you all, I'm not a talented artist or anything like that.

Shae Tate:
You're pretty good. I don't know.

Lysa TerKeurst:
But I always tell myself, "Lysa, the true beauty in this is sending it to someone else and allowing them to experience a blessing from the beauty that you've created, " and not to be so intimidated that if it's not perfect or it doesn't look like a certain standard of quality or whatever. It's so funny, when we painted last week, I sent just a picture really quick to a friend whose birthday was that day. And I said, "I painted this and while I was painting it, I thought of you." And she said, "This is so incredibly special." It wasn't because it was a masterpiece. It was because of the intentionality, and that's really what brings us full circle in seeing beautiful again, is just get intentional about doing things that not only make you feel like you are adding to the beauty of this world, but also get intentional with the perspectives that you have. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. So if you choose to see beautiful, you will.

Shae Tate:
Yeah. I love that, and I've heard, we've talked about this before, but whatever you're seeking or whatever you're looking for, if you're looking for God, you'll find him. If you're looking for love, you will find it because you're looking for it intentionally, like you're saying. So, friend, wherever you're tuning in from today, I hope that this Q&A with Lysa blessed you. Whether you are experiencing that heartbreaking season where you're in right now and you needed to hear it, it's okay if you just need one or two verses to cling to you today. That is enough for getting into God's word. Or maybe you have a friend, like Lysa was talking about, that's walking through a really heartbreaking season and you've been struggling to figure out how to be a loving friend to them during this time. I hope and pray that our conversation blessed you today. I also want to encourage you, grab your copy of, Seeing Beautiful Again. It's 50 devotions to find redemption in every part of your story, and I think it's my favorite book that you've put together yet, Lysa.

Lysa TerKeurst:
Thank you.

Shae Tate:
Thanks for your time today.

Lysa TerKeurst:
Yeah. Thank you, Shae. Appreciate it.

Meredith Brock:
So you guys, we told you that you'd get a lot out of that conversation. So good. Right, Kaley?

Kaley Olson:
So, so good. I think it speaks to where so many people are right now in the middle of their hurt. I guarantee you, every person listening right now is having to hold both sorrow and celebration in some capacity. We're all walking through hard things. Someone listening to this might be wondering if it's even possible to see beautiful again. So I just want to take some time to encourage you right where you are with truths from God's word, just with whatever sorrow you're holding today. So we are going to just read some truths over you guys and some scripture that goes along with it. So I'll share the first one.
This is the truth. You can be strong when you were at the end of your rope, and it's based on 2 Corinthians 12: 9, and 10 (ESV), "But he said to me, my grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness. Therefore, I will boast all the more gladly of my weaknesses, so that the power of Christ may rest upon me. For the sake of Christ, then, I am content with weaknesses, insults, hardships, persecutions, and calamities. For when I am weak, then I am strong."

Meredith Brock:
You can hold onto the truth that your story isn't over. Psalm 139:16 (ESV) says, "Your eyes saw my unformed substance; in your book were written, every one of them, the days that were formed for me, when as yet there was none of them."

Kaley Olson:
Another truth is you can worship when you don't have words. Psalm 59:16 (ESV) says, "But I will sing of your strength; I will sing aloud of your steadfast love in the morning. For you have been to me a fortress and a refuge in the day of my distress."

Meredith Brock:
The truth we want you to hold onto as well is you don't have to have it all figured out. Proverbs 3:5-6 (ESV) says, "Trust in the Lord with all your heart, and do not lean on your own understanding. In all your ways acknowledge him, and he will make straight your paths."

Kaley Olson:
And the last one is you can count on God to be with you in the bitter and the sweet, and this is Isaiah 43:2 (ESV), "When you pass through the waters, I will be with you; and through the rivers, they shall not overwhelm you; when you walk through the fire you shall not be burned, and the flame shall not consume you."

Meredith Brock:
Wherever you are today, we pray that these truths would sink in. Maybe today is a one or two verse day for you. Rewind just a few minutes and jot down the verses and read through them throughout the day just to hold on to these truths. If hearing this conversation with Lysa and Shae was encouraging for you, we want you guys to get the, Seeing Beautiful Again devotional because there's so much more in there. It's not just a beautiful devotional, which it actually is. The book itself is really beautiful, but it also is really incredible because of the words that are in it. If you're in a spot where you need a devotional that you can use each morning to guide you through a season of celebration and sorrow, or looking for a way to connect more deeply with the Lord, this devotional is just right for you. It's available for pre-order now in our bookstore at P31bookstore.com and it will release to the public to everyone on March 30, 2021. We don't want you guys to miss out on this really great, fantastic and beautiful resource.

Kaley Olson:
Yes, absolutely. Earlier, we also mentioned that with your pre-order, you get some great freebies like access to a brand new episode of Therapy and Theology with Lysa TerKeurst, her personal counselor, Jim Cress, who we all know and love, and our director of theological research at Proverbs 31, Joel Muddamalle. You guys don't want to miss out on that. And that's all for today, friends. Thank you so much for tuning in at Proverbs 31 Ministries. We believe when you know the truth of God's word and live out that truth, that changes everything. We'll see you next time.