The Proverbs 31 Ministries Podcast

Kaley Olson:
Hi, friends. Thanks for joining us for another episode of The Proverbs 31 Ministries Podcast, where we share biblical Truth for any girl in any season. I'm your host, Kaley Olson. I'm here with my co-host, Ashley Jackson.

Ashley Jackson:
Hi, friend.

Kaley Olson:
How you doing, Ashley?

Ashley Jackson:
Good. How are you, Kaley?

Kaley Olson:
I'm doing great. I love your green shirt today.

Ashley Jackson:
Oh, thank you.

Kaley Olson:
It's very springy.

Ashley Jackson:
Thanks. Yes, I'm embracing the spring.

Kaley Olson:
I know. We're recording this in the spring even though it doesn't release until the summer. But I am very excited for tank tops coming up soon. And just warmer weather —

Ashley Jackson:
Yes, warm weather.

Kaley Olson:
— And sunshine and all the things. But anyways, guys, we just wrapped up a really great conversation with our new friend Whitney Akin. She is going to share a teaching on how needing to be seen is actually a spiritual need that we have, which made me feel a little better about that.

Ashley Jackson:
Yes.

Kaley Olson:
First of all, as a Christian, I think it validated a lot. But second of all, she's going to share her experience in choosing to live seen by God and four ways that she saw change in her life through this mental shift. It's a really profound lesson, and I'm excited for you guys to hear it.

Ashley Jackson:
Yeah, you guys are going to love it. And if you're listening and immediately resonated with what Kaley just shared, we've linked a free resource in the show notes for you, titled “Overlooked, Overwhelmed and Over It.” It's five devotions for the girl who's tempted to quit, because we don't want you to quit. We want you to keep going, keep trusting God. You can grab it for free in the show notes below.

And if you haven't already, please consider leaving us a review on Apple Podcasts. Doing so helps us reach even more listeners. And ultimately, that's the goal: to help women around the world get connected to God's Word so they can know the Truth and live the Truth because it really does change everything. All right, friends. Enough from us. Let's go hear from our friend, Whitney.

Kaley Olson:
All right, friends. We're here with our new friend, Whitney Akin. Welcome to the show, Whitney.

Whitney Akin:
Thanks for having me.

Ashley Jackson:
Whitney is a wife and a mom, a writer, and a member of our COMPEL Writers Training Program, where, get this, she won a book contract, and her book released in April of 2023. That is so exciting, Whitney. We are so happy for you.

Kaley Olson:
I know! Yay!

Whitney Akin:
Thank you. I'm still pinching myself about that.

Kaley Olson:
I know, it's a big deal!

Ashley Jackson:
Yeah. As always though, we do want to know something fun about you, Whitney. So what we want to know is, in what moments of your life do you feel most like you can be yourself?

Kaley Olson:
Oh, that's a good question.

Whitney Akin:
Oh, good question. Definitely with my family. So my family kind of goes by the idea: work hard; play hard. So we like to take at least a day a week where we go on family adventures and find a state park, or just go somewhere we haven't been before, and explore and have fun. And I have little kids at home, and they just kind of make my whole world great. So that's when I feel like I can most be myself for sure.

Ashley Jackson:
Love that so much.

Kaley Olson:
I love that question, Ashley. I'm going to steal it and ask people that. I think I actually already did ask people that in a fun meeting. Anyways, Whitney, I want to circle back to your book, because you actually got a contract because you were a member of our COMPEL Writers Training Program, which, listeners, we'll tell you guys a little bit about how you can join later on in the show. But, Whitney, will you tell us a little bit about your book and who this message is for?

Whitney Akin:
Absolutely. So the book is called Overlooked: Finding Your Worth When You Feel All Alone. And it's sort of born out of my experience of feeling overlooked. But it's kind of addressing the questions, why do we long to be seen? Why do we long for attention? And how does God play a role in meeting that for us, especially in a social-media-driven world? And then, realizing that God sees us, how does that change the way we interact with the world around us?

Kaley Olson:
That's so good, Whitney, and such a needed message. And that's really why you're here today: to talk about how living seen really does allow us to love others really well and live as God intended for us to live. So I want to turn the mic over to you and give you an opportunity to share what's on your heart with us today. So why don't you take it away?

Whitney Akin:
All right. Thank you, ladies. So I wanted to start by asking our listeners a question, which is just: Can you think back to a time in your life when you felt unseen and alone? Maybe it was in school, trying to fit in with the right friend group. Maybe it was as a young mom, with a baby or a toddler, or both, trying to navigate the worry and the stress and, honestly, the loneliness that can come with that season. Maybe it was as an empty nester for the first time, just having to rearrange a life rhythm of motherhood that felt like it was going to be permanent, until it wasn't. Maybe it was as a single woman in a church or a Sunday-school class full of couples. Maybe it was in a season of suffering, when you felt like no one could begin to understand what you were going through.

And maybe as you're listening, you feel really unseen in life, right now. I know this feeling well, because I am by nature an introvert. And as a child, I was also very shy. So as far back as I can remember, the world around me kind of just felt intimidating. I remember hearing, "Oh, she's just shy," from all the adults around me so often, that I felt like it became part of my identity. And as I grew, I experienced this feeling of being overlooked in friend groups in elementary and middle school. And I cried so many tears, just wondering why I didn't fit in with them. And then, I felt overlooked in high school and college as I tried to be the best in my academics, but I never felt like I was good enough. And this feeling of being overlooked seemed to follow me. For so much of my life, I felt like I was less-than, easily forgotten, and chronically left out. And for many years, I really believed that I was the only person in the world that felt this way.

But something interesting happened when I was a young adult. It was the onset of social media. So I'll sort of tell my age, that I'm old enough to remember when social media was new. In fact, Facebook was something just for college students when I was in college. And it was pretty weird back then and very different than it is now. And since those first days when everybody talked in third person posts, like you would say, "Whitney is feeling great today," social media has grown obviously and morphed into this huge part of our lives. So we open Facebook, and we see hundreds of our friends sharing glimpses into their lives — things like what they ate for dinner, things we never thought to notice before. And then over on Instagram, there's a million pictures of all these very aesthetic lives that we feel like we need to emulate.
And then on Twitter, there's opinions on every current event and words crafted to curate followers. And then on TikTok and YouTube, there's these videos that we feel strangely compelled to watch of just complete strangers dancing and singing and doing really anything for another view and another like. And I don't know about you, but I'm not immune to this tendency toward social media either. So my own social media is filled with pictures of my family and inspirational quotes. And as much as I try not to let the system of quantifying likes and views and followers and comments affect me, it does. Because a really great response on social media leaves me feeling like I have cracked the algorithm. I have exceptional content. I offer value to people en masse. But then the very next week, a post that has just a couple of likes leaves me feeling like Why does no one ever care about anything that I ever do?

So our growing up obsession with social media is proof that I was wrong as a kid. I am not the only person in the world who feels overlooked. I'm not the only person who wants to be acknowledged, accepted and approved by my peers. Social media has shown us that we live in a society obsessed with attention and approval. For me, this realization that I'm not the only one struggling with this feeling made me want to ask the question, "Why do I long so deeply to be seen?"

So I started to do some research about this question. And what I found is that I'm certainly not the first person to ask this question. In fact, psychologists have been studying this need for attention and approval long before me. And I was very surprised in my research to find that psychologists don't consider attention and approval to be like this fleeting, selfish desire like so many of us think of it. Instead they actually define attention and approval as a biological human need, like eating, drinking or sleeping.
One psychologist has even created what's called Maslow's Human Hierarchy of Needs, and it's like this pyramid chart of what makes humans survive and thrive. And on that pyramid is a tier called “Love and Belonging.” And I think it's easiest to understand this well when we look at children. So whether you're a parent or grandparent or a teacher or maybe a church volunteer, if you work with children, you know they need a lot of attention and approval. They need a lot of hugs and reassurance. They need us to listen to their painfully long stories about some show that they watched.

At home, I have a 9, 7 and 4-year-old. And two of the most common phrases I hear from my children are, "Hey mom, watch this," and, "Mom, can I tell you something?" And I recently got to watch my little 4-year-old boy singing at his preschool choir at church. And as he stood on stage, I was really struck by this thing he did. He fixed his little eyes not on his director, who was very energetically leading them in the hand motions, but he fixed them squarely on me to make sure I was watching. And every once in a while, I would give him a little thumbs-up, and he would smile big enough for his dimples to show, and it was so cute. And I realized that my attention and approval were fueling his little 4-year-old confidence. So what makes us think that this need suddenly disappears when we become adults? The truth is, it doesn't. So we might not be shouting, "Watch this!" anymore, but we're still thinking it silently.

And like children, adults need positive attention and approval, but many of us are walking around hungry for something we can't quite put our finger on. So how do we satisfy this need for attention and approval? Other biological needs, like eating and sleeping, are pretty straightforward. For example, if you've ever been sleep deprived as a new mom, you know that your mind and body start to do some weird things. Like you'll put your keys in the refrigerator instead of the counter. Or you'll throw your laundry in the trash can instead of the laundry bin. Or you know it's getting really bad when you're trying to just say a simple sentence and your brain cannot find the words to complete a sentence, and [end up] saying, "I just need to go to bed." But it seems like satisfying this need for attention and approval isn't as simple as getting a good night's sleep.

So the research that I read about focused on trying to surround yourself with people that give good, consistent attention, along with increasing your own self-love. And I think these solutions do have value, and they certainly help. But personally, I didn't feel satisfied with this answer. Because I've tried getting my needs met from the attention of other people, but I always leave wanting more. And I've tried to work on self-love. But for me, self-esteem and self-confidence just aren't really my strong points. So I knew there had to be a better solution for this need that is very real, but I wasn't finding it in my online research.
So with this question in mind, I turned to God's Word. And right there at the beginning, I began to find my answer. So in Genesis 1:26-27, we read, “Then God said, 'Let us make man in our image, after our likeness' ... So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them” (ESV). And then Genesis 1:31, a pretty familiar verse to a lot of us, says, "And God saw everything that he had made, and behold, it was very good" (ESV). So we see humanity's origin story is filled with compassionate attention. This triune God is carefully crafting male and female in His image. And then that line that God saw and He declared it very good. So Adam and Eve received attention and approval from God Himself.

And this verse made me stop and wonder, What if our need to be seen isn't just emotional or biological? What if it's spiritual? For a precious short time, the first humans were completely satisfied in the attention and approval of God. But we know that it didn't last. We know that in Genesis 3 ... reread the familiar story of the fall, the lying serpent, the tempting fruit, the choice to disobey God. And right after Adam and Eve ate the fruit, the very first thing that happened is pretty interesting within the context of longing to be seen. Genesis 3:7 says their eyes were opened. And with their newfound knowledge, the very first thing Adam and Eve saw and knew was that they were naked. And in their shame, they made coverings for themselves. And when the presence of God drew near, they hid from Him.

And this right here is the place where so many of us have stayed, hiding from our Creator. We've forgotten our origin story of compassion and attention. And in our hiding, all we can see is each other, other people just like us, and we look desperately to each other to fill this void of attention and approval that we long for and need. But it's a void that humans were never meant to fill. And this is where I lived for so long. I looked to others to approve of me, to just see me. But I was always left feeling overlooked and disappointed. And instead of turning to my Creator, my response was to hide away even further, to close off my heart, drift into the background, and try my very best to never be noticed, even as my heart longed to be seen.

In this place of hiding, I developed some bad habits, things that I didn't really like about myself but I didn't know how to change. Things like self-consciousness, fear, and being consumed with what other people thought of me. At the time, I thought these traits meant that I was being humble. But a few years ago, on a Wednesday night at church, I heard the term "negative pride" for the first time. I don't know if you've ever heard this term. The Bible study teacher explained that self-consciousness, self-hatred, low self-esteem, self-deprecation, all had one common denominator: self. And although these feelings were negative, they were still ultimately all about me.

And I left that class feeling so much conviction. For the first time I considered, "What if my habits weren't actually humble? And what if I was looking at myself with the wrong perspective?" And I'll have to say that God is so patient with me, because I'm a really slow processor. That over a period of several years, God began to show me just how much hiding was hurting my heart. I realized that I not only felt overlooked by other people; I believed that I was unusable by God. It was like I put a big "Closed" sign on my heart, and I was unwilling to open it up to anyone but a very few trusted people in my life.

And I can still remember where I was when I experienced this moment with God like I never had before. His presence was so tangible, and I was crying, and all I knew was that He was asking one word of me, and it was "willing." Would I be willing to open my heart to Him? And that day He took my very weak "yes" and began to teach me. He reminded me of His Word in chapters like Psalm 139 that promised that He was familiar with all my ways, that He knew my thoughts, my words, and the number of my days. He reminded me of His character, that He is El Roi, the God who sees, that He is omniscient and omnipresent, that He's always aware of His children and always looking after them. And He reminded me of His love for me and the gift of His Son, Jesus.

Adam and Eve hid from their Creator because of their sin. But through Jesus' perfect life, death and resurrection, we don't have to hide anymore. We can return to the attention and approval of our Creator. In Jesus, we can hear God say again, "I see you, and you are very good." And realizing this truth was life-changing for me. And I don't really say that lightly at all. Letting the truth that God sees me and loves me really soak into my heart was like stepping out of the shadows I'd hidden in for so long and squinting at the light around me.

But the realization that God sees me was just the beginning, because I still had some things to deal with. My habits of self-consciousness, fear, and being consumed with what other people thought of me didn't magically just turn off. But by the grace of God, these areas of my life did begin to transform. And today, I want to share four ways I learned to practice what it practically looks like to live seen by God.

So the first is that being seen and loved by God compelled me toward obedience. So when God began working on my heart, I sensed Him very clearly challenging me to care more about obeying Him than being bound to the fear of what other people thought about me. And I learned quickly that steps of obedience to God are hard, often scary, and rarely ever make perfect sense to us. But as I slowly began making my heart available to God, I learned some important things about godly obedience. The first is that God always offers us help. So when God calls us to obedience, He's the one who equips us to obey. He sends us the helper, His Holy Spirit. And that means that no matter how great our weaknesses and no matter how big His request is, the Holy Spirit is our equipping power for obedience.

I also learned that godly obedience is beautifully backward. It doesn't operate within the boundaries of our expectation or even our logic. Sometimes, what God asks us to do in obedience makes no sense to us. But when we obey, we can trust that what feels crazy to us is part of the bigger picture God is painting.
And finally, I learned this special little equation in the Christian life: that obeying God is like this ratio of a million to one. So that is, for every one step we take in obedience, God takes what feels like a million steps toward us. And this is such a beautiful truth, because our little, shaky step of imperfect obedience is met by a God who rushes toward us, to study us and lead us to the next step and the next step and the next. And I realized I could begin to lay down my fear and step in obedience, because He's trustworthy.
Jesus said to His disciples in John 14:15, "If you love me, you will keep my commandments" (ESV). So we know obedience is an act of love to the God who sees us and loves us so well. In obeying Him, I've realized that satisfaction I found in doing what He called me to do was far greater than the fear of what others thought of me.

The next change I saw in my life as I began to try to live seen by God is that my false humility, or that negative pride, begin to transform into meekness. Now, “meekness” was a word I don't even think I could have defined for you a few years ago. I thought it was the same thing as timidity, basically like living as a doormat, fearful and cowering. And to be honest, I was pretty good at being timid. But I learned that meekness is nothing like timidity.

So in 2 Timothy 1:7, it says fear, or timidity, is not from God. But then, Jesus says in Matthew 11:29 that He is gentle and lowly in heart. And the word “gentle” in this verse is the Greek word praus, which means "meek." So if Jesus is meek but timidity isn't from God, then they must not be the same thing at all. And then I realized that if meekness and timidity weren't synonyms, I didn't really know what meekness was. So I spent a long time studying meekness in the Bible, trying to understand its right definition. And I came up with five essential traits of a meek heart that helped me to define what meekness would look like in my life. And I wanted to share that definition with you.

So one, meek people are carried by Jesus. Meekness really hinges on accepting the reality that God is over all and trusting God to manage it all without us having to be a know-it-all. We are out of control, and God is in control, and that is OK.

And two, meek people are connected to others through humility. So there's really no place for pride, or that negative pride, in meekness. It's fueled by a genuine humility. A meek person understands that their significance isn't defined by how others elevate or diminish them but by who God says they are.
And then three, meek people are called to service. So walking in humility means we find ourselves on a level playing field with those around us. And this prompts us to see ourselves as poor and needy, and it grows in our hearts a longing to serve others in need for meek people are comforted by eternity. So walking in meekness can feel hard, fruitless and even impossible in the world around us. But eternity is the hope that we’re clinging to.

And finally, meek people are convinced they will receive justice. So while we endure injustice on this earth, we understand that God sees every wrong. He knows. And in Jesus, He sent us a Deliverer to redeem every moment of suffering and pain. Meekness has become one of my favorite traits to study in the Bible, and it's one of my greatest desires to cultivate this trait in my life. Because I'm really convinced that the self-promoting, social-media-obsessed society we live in could really use some more meek hearts.
So the third way I began to practice living seen was learning what it meant to have Christ-centered confidence. I've always wanted to be confident, but I've always had a pretty dicey relationship with confidence as well. But God began to teach me that if I wanted to grow in grounded lasting confidence, I had to put myself in a position to watch Him come through. And that usually looks like standing in a place of vulnerability. It's not comfortable. And as someone used to hiding in those shadows, the idea of being vulnerable was terrifying.

I learned so much about confidence from Moses' account, which was interesting to me, because we think of him as a biblical great, and he totally is. But in Exodus 4, after God called Moses at the Burning Bush to lead the Israelites out of Egypt, Moses argued with God. He told God people wouldn't believe him, he wasn't a good speaker, and God should send someone else. But God didn't give up on Moses. And what made Moses a great leader wasn't his own confidence. It was his willingness to stand in a place of vulnerability and watch God come through. To stand before Pharaoh and trust God to free His people. Or to stand on the banks of the Red Sea and trust God to part it. Or to stand before a whole nation of people in the middle of a desert and trust God to provide.

I knew if I wanted to experience this kind of confidence, I needed to lean into these places of vulnerability. So for me, that's looked like different things. That's looked like standing on stages to teach women, even though I'm an awkward introvert. Or it's looked like showing up to a women's Bible study, even though I didn't know anybody there. Or speaking up when I felt like shrinking back. And the thing is that each time, big or small, I made myself vulnerable and available, God always came through for me. So as I've watched God come through for me over and over again, my confidence has grown so much. And it isn't confidence in myself. I still want to go back into my safe hiding spot a lot. To be perfectly honest, I'm not very confident in myself. My confidence is focused squarely on God and what He can do, and I am wildly confident in who He is.

And finally, as I've practiced what it looks like to live seen in obedience, meekness and confidence, I've noticed a perspective shift. So I think about Paul encountering Jesus on the Damascus Road, in Acts 9. Before that moment, Paul was completely caught up in his qualifications as a Pharisee, his works, even his zealousness to stop the spread of Christianity. It was like Paul was out to prove he was the best and most committed religious person ever. But just a few days after seeing Jesus, Paul's perspective changed away from proving himself and to reaching out to others with the Good News of the gospel.

This is what being seen by God does to our hearts. Instead of being obsessed with what other people think about us, we have a new lens that sees people through a gospel perspective, allowing us to see people not as a means to define our worth but as souls in need of a savior. When we aren't looking to others to fill our void of attention and approval, we can actually see their hearts more clearly. And instead of looking for what we can get from them, this new perspective allows us to recognize their needs. And what greater honor do we have than to look at someone like us — stuck in hiding, looking for their worth in others, aching for attention and approval — and tell them that there's hope in Jesus?

Living seen by God has really transformed my life. I was once a woman full of self-consciousness and fear, and preoccupied with what everyone thought of me. And honestly, some days I still am. But now, by the grace of God, those aren't the traits that define me. Now, I'm a woman whose ambition is to see my life characterized by obedience, meekness, confidence and a gospel perspective. I am changed because I know through Jesus, God has set His attention and affection on me. And that's really my heart for everyone listening: that you'll know that your worth comes from your Creator, that the attention and approval you long for and you need is satisfied in the God who sees, and that living seen by Him can change the way you see yourself and the way you interact with the world around you.

Kaley Olson:
Wow, Whitney. That was so good. What I really liked that you did with your teaching is not just affirm that we are seen by God, but you talked us through the fruit that you saw in your life, because you chose to lean in and really let what God says about you speak to who you are. One of the things that I've never heard before, and actually I don't know if you've heard this phrase either, is the “negative pride” phrase. That was so interesting to me, because I think I've always thought of pride as people who think too much of themselves. And I think as Christians, especially women, sometimes we have this ... We're taught this lie that we have to think less of ourselves because that is humility, and thinking less of yourselves in a negative way. So I thought that that was really interesting, and something that is going to kind of stick with me.

But one question that I have for you, Whitney, is, you in your teaching said you felt like the Lord say to you, "Would you just be willing to open your heart to Me?" And it was after that and through that process that you saw the fruit. So what I want to know is what did it look like whenever you did open your heart to God? Can you take us inside maybe your diary or your journal in that process and just help us understand what that looks like whenever you did open your heart to God? What changed, and what transformed then?

Whitney Akin:
Absolutely. So for me, that looked like sharing my story with people. I felt like it was specifically calling me to be open about my own struggles and weaknesses, which I really didn't ... I spent a long time trying to hide those things. I didn't want other people to see those things. So using writing or speaking or friendships or conversations to be like, "You know what? I'm going to level with you here. I'm not going to try to pretend that I have it all together." Or "I'm going to tell you my story of ... For instance, I struggled with infertility for a while before having children. I'm going to tell you my story so that you don't feel alone." Or "I'm going to tell you that I struggle with self-consciousness because I do, and I don't want to pretend I don't."

Not to lead with weaknesses, and to do what you said, to lower myself. But to create a level ground that says, “Maybe I'm not the only one.” And maybe by opening my heart and my story to other people, walls get torn down and people are willing to be honest. And I saw that God began to do that in conversations or in speaking or in writing or sharing something on Instagram or whatever; I learned that I wasn't alone, for sure, and that people resonated with that story.

Kaley Olson:
Wow. That's so interesting, because I feel like whenever we feel overlooked and unseen, I would assume that everything has to be fixed in the quiet with the Lord, but it doesn't. It sounds like it was both, and it's very interesting that the Lord said, "Open your heart to other people." And I think that if we are meant to be the hands and feet of Christ, and it sounds like God used other people to be His eyes and ears, to be able to hear you and listen to what you're struggling with. That's really profound.

Ashley Jackson:
Yeah, like He brought healing through the obedience, her obedience. That's cool.

Kaley Olson:
Yeah. Ashley, I'd love to know what you're thinking.

Ashley Jackson:
Yeah, so this really resonates with me. So I think, of course, we all exist in our own heads, most of all. And I always think like, "I'm the only one that struggles with X." But when you're sharing, I think a lot of women struggle with feeling overlooked. Or "Am I invited to sit at this table? Is there a place for me?" And feeling like a lot of time the answer is “no.” You tell yourself that, and what does that look like? So I loved what you were sharing about as the Lord started to teach you the ways to live seen. It's the same kind of point you brought out. It's just a different part that she was talking about. But the willingness to stand in a place of vulnerability and watch God come through, that really stuck out to me. Because, I think, as you start doing something like that, even being on this podcast right now, there's probably some part of you that's like, "Oh, I'm being really seen now. Oh, no!"

Whitney Akin:
Or a big part of me, yes.

Ashley Jackson:
Yeah. And then there's also ... Then the enemy comes with the lie of like, "OK, well, who do you think you are?"

Whitney Akin:
Yes.

Ashley Jackson:
So this beautiful going between both dependence and obedience, what does that look like? So I guess my question is, as you are vulnerable with this message and with this story, what are the ways that you've seen God come through as you've stepped out?

Whitney Akin:
Yeah, absolutely. The message in this book is so vulnerable, and I have argued with God, Why did You make me write this book? Because I'm really putting myself out there. But I think number one, starting just from a place of intimacy with Christ personally on a consistent basis. In order to walk in that vulnerability, I have to be close with Him, or I'm going to crash and burn really fast. But I've seen God ... I kind of describe it in the book like God has become my safe person. So I don't know if you guys have ever done this, but as an introvert, I like to have a safe person. It's usually an extrovert who can navigate me through social situations or help me make choices or affirm me and tell me ... But sometimes in life we don't have that. And I've learned a lot, especially through following God, that sometimes you have to do it without everyone saying you should.

And I've learned to rely on God as my safe person, through that intimacy, through Him affirming that in His Word, through knowing that He's with me and reminding myself of that truth: that He sees me. Something as simple as just walking into a group of people I don't know and showing up has been a really hard thing for me in my life. But knowing God is with me has changed my whole perspective that I can come into this room. Like you said, I don't have to earn a seat at this table. I am who I am in Christ, and I don't have to cower in front of everyone else anymore, and I can walk in humility instead.

Ashley Jackson:
That's beautiful.

Kaley Olson:
Yeah, that is beautiful. I do want to really quick recap these four points. And, Whitney, I'm going to butcher this, or I might butcher this. I don't know. We'll see how well I took notes. So when we live seen by God, some of the fruit that we can experience is obedience, our negative pride transformed into meekness, Christ-centered confidence and a perspective shift. So, Whitney, did I get it right?

Whitney Akin:
You did very good.

Kaley Olson:
There you go. There I did it. This was really helpful. So the last question that I want to ask you isn't a question about this teaching necessarily, but it's about your experience as a COMPEL Writers Training member. So if you're listening to this podcast and you haven't heard about COMPEL before, it's our writers membership platform that we have here at Proverbs 31 Ministries. Lysa TerKeurst founded it years ago, because she knew that she kind of had to figure everything out on her own. She felt very overwhelmed and overlooked as a writer, not having a lot of guidance. So she started this platform to help other people know what steps to take. So, Whitney, for you, will you share with us one thing that COMPEL has taught you as a writer or given you greater confidence to be able to give this message?

Whitney Akin:
Oh, my goodness. One thing ... that's hard. I'll give one thing that's like a summary of a lot of things, but I went to school for writing. But I have to say that COMPEL has taught me more about the Christian publishing industry than I ever learned in college. And not just the Christian ... just the publishing industry in general and how to prepare writing that's not just for ourselves but really for that reader. And to develop writing beyond journaling, or working things out in our own time, toward meeting a need that the reader has. I think that's been really valuable to learn through COMPEL.

Kaley Olson:
Wow. Yeah, I agree. I think that COMPEL is unique in that, in the publishing opportunities, especially publishing opportunities for book contracts, like the book contract that you won ... to be able to write and release your own book, which is really exciting. So, guys, if you're interested in writing or becoming a member of COMPEL, be sure to visit compeltraining.com to find out how to do that, and join the writing community over there. Because I know Whitney and Ashley would back me up as writers —

Ashley Jackson:
100%.

Kaley Olson:
— But writing and having a community of people who also are there to listen and process alongside you is a game changer. I think that you'll find that at COMPEL, as well. But, Whitney, it was really a pleasure to have you on the show today. Thank you so much for your teaching and for being vulnerable in coming on the show and talking to us about that. We're so grateful for you. I want to, one more time, mention your book, Overlooked: Finding Your Worth When You Feel All Alone. It's available in the show notes below, or you can go to our bookstore at p31bookstore.com to grab your copy.

Ashley Jackson:
Yeah, and before we go, I also wanted to mention that we have a free guide that kind of goes along with this similar topic. It's called “Overwhelmed, Overlooked and Over It.” I feel like so many of us can relate to that title. It's five devotions for the girl who's tempted to quit. And I think this is something that we all have felt at times in our life, where it's just like, "I can't take one more thing. What am I supposed to do now?" So we put this guide together for you if you just need that extra encouragement from the Lord to say, "No, it's not time to quit. It's time to keep pressing in and pressing on."

Kaley Olson:
Absolutely. Also, guys, please don't forget to rate the show and leave us a written review on Apple Podcasts if this podcast has been helpful to you. We like hearing from you guys, and your reviews also help us reach more women with biblical solutions as they grow in their faith. All right, friends, thanks so much for joining us on the show today. At Proverbs 31 Ministries, we believe when you know the Truth and live the Truth, it changes everything.