The Proverbs 31 Ministries Podcast

Meredith:
Well, hello, friends. Welcome back to the Proverbs 31 Ministries Podcast, where we share biblical Truth for any girl in any season. I'm your host, Meredith Brock, and I am here with my co-host, Kaley Olson.

Kaley:
Well, hi, Meredith. It's great to be back with you today. I have a question for you. Are you ready? It's a very churchy question.

Meredith:
Oh boy, you know how I do with churchy questions.

Kaley:
It's interesting. Okay, have you ever been asked to mentor someone or maybe you wanted somebody to mentor you, but you found approaching the conversation very awkward?

Meredith:
Yes. There are quite a few scenarios that immediately come to mind, and I automatically have sweaty palms, and I'm trying to push the memories back in my brain.

Kaley:
If you're a fan of asking someone on a date, in a way, you don't know what they're going to say, if they're going to say yes or no. But, I think for sure, the heart behind mentoring is not intended to be awkward, but asking someone to mentor you is really asking them to help you become more Christ-like or vice versa. If you want to mentor someone else, you want to help them become more Christ-like.

Kaley:
I can say that I personally have never really felt qualified to mentor someone because I'm afraid I'm going to mess it up because I'm human and I'm not perfect, right? That's why I'm really excited about today's podcast recording, because this is exactly the good stuff that we're going to talk about today. We've got two incredible ladies joining us today on the podcast, and I'm so pumped for them to talk a little bit about mentorship.

Kaley:
First, let's welcome our very own president, Lysa TerKeurst to the show, and then I'll let her introduce our special guests for today. Hi Lysa.

Lysa:
Hi Kaley, thank you so much. I've been so looking forward to this, because like you said, today's guest is not only an incredible, influential voice in the Christian community, but also a dear personal friend. Without further ado, let me introduce Shelley Giglio. She is the wife of Louie. They have a phenomenal church in Atlanta. One thing that I love so much about Shelley and Louie's church and Shelley, correct me if I'm saying this wrong, Passion City, is that right?

Shelley:
That's it, Passion City Church, Atlanta, and Washington D.C. as well.

Lysa:
That's so awesome. You got to hear her voice; she is a voice of strength. She is a voice of wisdom. She is a voice of influence in my life, both personally and professionally. I love her, and I don't want to take too much time, I could just take the whole podcast and talk about Shelley, but, the purpose that we're here today is, Shelley, you have an amazing new project called Flourish and it's a mentoring program, and I want you to tell us a little bit more about this awesome project.

Shelley:
Yeah. I love to talk about it because I think everyone has things in their hearts that they really care about, and this project in particular has been in my heart for several years. In fact, seven years ago, we started a ministry at our church called the Grove, which, Lysa, you've been a part of many times. It's an outreach to the city, really for the women of our city. The joy and fellowship that we feel together in these moments of the Grove are so special.

Shelley:
It's Bible study, but it's so, I think on steroids, it's one of the best environments I think, to grow spiritually and corporately that I've been in, in a long time in life. Obviously, as that's been going for seven years, simultaneously, God gave me a vision that the women who would participate in something like that corporately would also have an opportunity to grow spiritually underneath, so that we wouldn't just come into corporate settings, have great nights of worship, have teaching and feel good, but that we would have daily growth in our lives, and that that would come from the Word of God, because we all know that apart from the Word, there's not a lot of growth happening in our lives. But within the Word, there's so much opportunity.

Shelley:
I wanted to create a way for us to dig in, in a very intentional, year-long relationship with the Word of God, with the person of Jesus, yes, but with also somebody who's just slightly ahead of us who can help teach us what it looks like to dig back into the Word for the answers that we need for our lives.

Shelley:
Flourish was born into that season. Passion City Church Flourish is seven years old, which is crazy. But in the last season, we've actually been able to export that to the rest of the world, and that's been the exciting days that we're in. So, yeah, we love it.

Lysa:
That's amazing. Well, I know when I was in my 20s and even 30s, I longed for a mentor, but it was kind of a complicated scenario because if you didn't naturally meet someone, then it always felt awkward to sign up for such an intimate relationship. Tell me a little bit about how you run your program, and how this would work? Someone wants to bring this to their church or to their sphere of influence, how would they do that? Then, right behind that, I want you to also comment about how do we know that this is the biblical model for accomplishing the shared influence that we're trying to do with mentoring?

Shelley:
Yeah, I think there's a couple of things about that. First of all, just as far as the why of mentoring, I feel like this is really a God idea. Nothing that we do that helps us grow spiritually works super well if God didn't come up with a concept to start with. In the Bible, it talks very specifically, particularly in Titus 2, and there's some other verses that I can refer to later as well, but it talks about older women being reverent in behavior, not being slanderers, or not drinking too much wine, but teaching what is good and training younger women to love their husbands and children to be a self-controlled in the way that they live. To be pure-hearted, kind, submissive under the Word of God.

I'm like, when I listen to that, it doesn't sound vague; it sounds clear. It sounds like God's trying to say to us that the way to grow your life into this flourishing, successful person is to actually be trained by somebody ahead of you, and to have them say to you, these are the things that are important for your life. I don't know about you, but when I was in my 20s, it felt like everything had equal importance.

I had to determine or discern: What am I supposed to be doing? It all was just coming at me full force. I think when you have someone that's just slightly ahead of you, they have the opportunity and the experience to say to you, "Hey, let me help you by telling you the things that you really need to be focused on." When I do, it's going to eliminate a lot of that clutter and noise in your life, it's going to allow you to come down to the things that matter and to really see growth in your life in those areas." I think mentorship does just that. It just gives us the privilege.

Now, when you talk about asking a mentor, "Hey, can you tell me everything you know?" People are intimidated. I have people ask me a lot, "Will you mentor me?" I'm like, "What do I plausibly know? I'm still figuring everything out [inaudible] like you." But the truth is that I'm ahead of you in so many ways. I've experienced so many things already. I could help you, not by telling you my opinion or what I think about something, but by simply directing you back to the Word of God so that you can ask Him what He thinks about the scenario or the experience that you're currently in or what you should do to live a more flourishing life.

That's why I think mentoring is important. It's not the be-all end-all. It's not going to solve all your problems. It's not counseling. Some people need counseling. I agree with counseling. I think it's incredible. This isn't that. This is simply having someone who has experience with God in His Word, helping you go through your life in such a way that you can focus on the things that really matter.

Lysa:
I love that, Shelley, and I love that you brought up the distinction that this isn't counseling. Help define mentoring for us. What's a good way for us to know what a mentor is so that we have the right desires going into that relationship?

Shelley:
I think it's as simple as saying that it's an actual woman ahead of you calling you up to a higher standard of living. It is someone saying to you, the potential in your life is overwhelming and your opportunity to release and be a part of that potential is incredible. But without intentionality, without a good plan, without somebody who can help you, you probably won't reach that potential.

Instead of just giving up and saying, "You know what, it's hard and I don't even know where to start. I don't even know what I should be asking God for. I have no idea what's important right now." Instead, put your life in submission to somebody who's ahead of you and say, "Hey, will you study Scripture with me in a very intentional way, over the next year of my life so that at the end of this year, I can look back and see personal growth."

Lysa:
I like that you stated the goal here is personal growth. It can take on a life of its own depending on where you really feel like you need help and growth and development. Because I remember —

Shelley:
I remember, what we did in the first year that we developed for Flourish is that we really took the Word of God and broke it down into some kind of big chunks. Some of those areas are taking on the Word itself. What makes the Word reliable? Why should I be listening to this to start with? The second one is prayer. How do I actually commune and talk with God? How can I be in a prayerful place in my life?

Next one identity. Who am I not? Who do I think I am not? Who does the world think I am? Who does God think I am? Who did God create me to be? Then calling, relationships, gratitude, how that plays into our whole life. We didn't really rewrite anything, we customized this to be walking through scripture in an intentional way, over these subjects, over a year's worth of time with someone ahead of you. It's nothing that's all that revolutionary, but it's very, very helpful in the way of discipline.

We had — over 4,000 women in our church alone have walked through this with us over the past seven years. We're building the strength of our house by building the people of our house. The goal isn't that our house would be bigger, or that "we would have more intentional relationships with people," but that we would become the people that God always dreamed that we would be. As a result, the whole world would then get to hear the message of Christ in all of our worlds.

It's been an interesting process to watch God strengthen people so that-

Lysa:
I love that.

Shelley:
... when the hardship comes and it's coming for every one of us, it's coming, that we have the Word of God and the person of Jesus intentionally in our hearts and lives to hold onto in those seasons. It's been beautiful to watch it not just benefit people personally, that then collectively, to think that our whole house has been strengthened from it as well.

Lysa:
I love that. I love the vision of how it can help move the church forward. We all know that when you move the women forward and you develop them and you grow them, you are moving the church forward because, women do have so much influence, not just peer to peer, but in the future generation, through raising their kids. Women are definitely processors. If you have healthy women in your church, you'll just have a healthier dynamic at your church.

I love that. Well, peek inside of the Flourish curriculum, if you will, and give us a little bit of the inside scoop of what ... If I ordered this material, what am I going to find inside? If I'm being called on to be a mentor, how much am I going to have to try to figure out on my own, or is it pretty easily spelled out?

Shelley:
It's very easily spelled out. It's put in sections that are really easy to follow, and it's basically broken down into week curriculums. So, you're not just on your own, trying to figure out what to do next. It's actually guiding you in the process. All of that is, as I mentioned, and will continue to mention, it's all scriptural. It's really not ... My main problem with mentors, and this is what scared me the most, and I think it's what scares everyone is that, "Oh my goodness, is my opinion going to be right? Am I going to get into a situation with a mentee who needs me to encourage them, and then I'm just going to start spouting off stuff, and then they're going to walk away and I'm going to think, is that even helpful or right?"

Rather than putting that on a mentor, we're saying Scripture speaks to these things. You don't actually have to know what you think about it, because God knows what He thinks about it. Instead of being fearful, "Oh no, what if I mess this up?" I say to people all the time, "Let's give you tools in your hand to go back to Scripture and to find out what the Word of God has to say about whatever these things are."

Yes, it's broken down simply, and then we're also creating videos all the time that talk about ways that mentor can connect with their mentee better. Possibility for them to learn certain things together, additional books. If they get into a subject that they feel like, “man, I wish I knew more about identity,” then where should I go?

All of those resources are listed as well, and all of that's on our website; it's very easy to follow, and those are the kinds of tools we want people to have in their hands so that they're prepared.

Lysa:
That's so awesome. Would you say, Shelley, that if I have a certain bent or a certain expertise, and maybe I have an expertise towards cooking and hospitality, is there room for some of that to come out in this curriculum? Now, let me just clearly state, I would not be the mentor with cooking, I would be looking for a mentor in class —

Meredith:
Babe, enter a cooking class immediately.

Lysa:
Yes, immediately, I may drive to your house and —

Shelley:
[crosstalk] mentoring relationships obviously take on people's personalities. What we don't want to do is put it down into a system and then say, “hey, that's religion.” That's saying to people, if you jump through all these hoops, then you're going to end up being like this. I feel like that puts a lot of pressure on us as humans to perform to a level that God will be accepting of us, and that's religion, and none of us want to be a part of that.

I cannot do enough stuff to make God happy. God is already happy. The way He's happy is the person of Jesus. He's so clear in scripture, talking about you couldn't add up. Guess what? I sent a savior. If you could have added up, you wouldn't have needed anyone, but the truth is there was no way you could be adequate enough. So, I gave you Jesus. He is your adequacy. He's the one who covers your life. All of us who are striving to earn, God's saying, "Be free. You don't have to earn one thing from Me." That's different from inviting you into growing into knowing me. Those aren't the same things.

Sometimes I feel like in the church, we confuse them. We often say, “You know what, if I want to be more like God, then I must be earning something, and I want to say out loud, as clearly as I can, you cannot earn anything more than what He's already given you. There is no more for you to tap into by doing a program, going through a list, reading Scripture, going through the one-year Bible, you're not getting to the point where He accepts you — you are accepted.

Now, you're at the point where I'm in a relationship. I want to know the God who has invited me in. This is one more opportunity for you to know your maker and what an invitation that is. I'm like, there is no greater invitation in life. God says, "I want you to know me, not just being in a relationship with me, but know me." The way to do that is for us to dig in and to be disciplined in our life to make it a focus of our life and to make it a commitment of our life that I will know God.

I think He's knowable. Is it, am I ever going to reach the point where I'm like, “oh, got it?” Well, tell me, I've been married 35 years, am I ever going to reach the point where I know my husband? No, I'm not. He surprises me every day. I'm like, how is that possible? How is it possible that I couldn't know that about you? But there's all kinds of discoveries for a lifetime. With God, when you multiply that out, perfect. How do you know perfect? It's going to take a minute. Will we get there in life? Will we get to the end of our life and say, "I can check that box. I know God"? No, He's beyond what we could know or comprehend, but yet the invitation to pursue Him remains. I think this is just one more chance for people to take Him up on His invitation.

Lysa:
I love that so much, Shelley. I think part of what I hear you saying is that if we help women, especially women in a generation behind us, or just a season behind us in life, if we help them know God more personally and intimately, know the ways of Jesus and know the Word through the Bible, then it will give us markers on our journey. It may not give us specific answers, but it'll give us these beautiful markers on a journey where we won't see feel so lost and confused when we hit the place that we don't know what to do. I love that.

I was looking over ... I've been to the Grove many times, which, the Grove is this amazing ... What did you say?

Shelley:
I said, thank you. We love you. Come back any time.

Lysa:
I love the Grove. The Grove is this beautiful, just opportunity for women all over your city to come together. It's a one-night event, and it's amazing. I think you do them once a month, right?

Shelley:
We do, yes.

Lysa:
In being at the Grove, this special event that Passion City Church does for women, I have picked up on the vision of the Grove, and the four-pillar word. I'm going to read those because I think all of this fits together so beautifully. You say, I will be rooted in Jesus and His Word. I will choose to flourish. There's that word that you've equated your mentoring program to? I will choose to flourish where I'm planted. I will walk in freedom and truly live. I will offer my life as shade to people in my path.

I love that. I love these terms; rooted, flourish, freedom and shade. I just think it's such a beautiful picture of helping women navigate all the complexities of life. One more question, and then I'm eager to hear from Meredith and Kaley, because I feel like we've hijacked this conversation, Shelley —

Shelley:
I know, sorry. Meredith and Kaley, we're coming, we're coming.

Lysa:
We're coming. One more thing. If I'm a mentee, someone that I'm tossing around this idea, like, should I buy into this and get a mentor? Or, I have this whole group of friends that we get together. We study the Bible, we're all the same age, do I really need a mentor? Why should we consider breaking out of what feels naturally comfortable in our group of friends who are all very much in the same stage of life?

Shelley:
The best way I can talk about that is, and my husband will be thrilled to hear this, but my husband climbed the Matterhorn one year, it was a really bad idea. I don't think he was prepared for what he encountered. I was very nervous and was pretty sure he was going to die the whole time he was doing it, but he was not crazy enough to try to do it by himself; he got a guide. You know what the guide does? The guide climbs the mountain probably three times a week. He takes different people with them every time. The circumstances of the mountain are different. As you know, they can change in an instant; a snowstorm can move in, ice can begin to melt, things change all the time. But the guide has experience because he's been in every climate, he's been in every situation, he knows where every rope hold is, he knows how to prepare the person to succeed.

If that's what my husband needed to go up the Matterhorn and we have the Matterhorn, way larger, of God in front of us, why wouldn't we invite someone who knows and is further along than us, who has more experience, who knows the right questions to ask, the right positions to be in, the right information so that we can actually avoid some of the pitfalls. Why wouldn't we invite that person into help us? Why wouldn't we say to them, "I want to know God. Knowing God is way harder than climbing the Matterhorn, but I'm going to ask you who” — no, you don't know it all. No, there isn't an answer to every question I have. No, you don't have a counseling degree, but you are ahead of me in the quest to know God, and I believe if we read Scripture together that you can assist me from hitting the pitfalls, from falling down in places that you have already learned, “don't go there, don't listen to that. You don't need to be a part of that. I in turn, learn from you and I actually am more successful in my quest of knowing God."

Shelley:
That's the easiest way I can say it.

Lysa:
Beautiful. That is beautiful. That is a great example, and yes, I think he's quite crazy for climbing a situation like that.

Shelley:
I had to climb up to 5,000 feet to meet him when he came down, and all I know is that he cried, sobbed on my shoulder, and said, "I will never do that again." About three years later, when I'm sure he had forgotten that moment, which of course I had not, he started mentioning the next mountain at that point. I said, "No, no, no, no. Now, you cried and you said, and I'm pretty sure you promised. No, you're not climbing anything else." So far we've succeeded in that.

Meredith:
Yeah. Wow. That is quite the feat, Shelley. Well, I know Kaley and I have been chatting here offline while the two of you have been talking, because this is just, I think, what's really interesting about who we have on the podcast here. I'm not going to call out actual ages, but we have three very different seasons of life, where I think there's a really good representation of what kind of relationships should look like in the body of Christ. Where ladies one step ahead of you are just sowing the wisdom that they have gotten in their life into the next generation and into the next generation.

I know I have just by being in relationship with you, Shelley, and with you, Lysa, have garnered so much from your wisdom and your life experience. But I know Kaley, we were chatting offline here and she has a question that she'd like to ask, from her vantage point and where she's at in her season.

Kaley:
Oh yeah. I think for all of the 20-somethings who are listening, who want to have a word with Shelley Giglio about any advice you can give, this is for you guys out there. Shelley, at the very beginning —

Shelley:
No pressure.

Kaley:
I know. We love you. The very beginning, whenever you started talking about Titus 2 and the older women mentoring the younger women and teaching them, you said, when you're in your 20s, everything feels equally important and overwhelming, and it's hard to discern what truly matters. I was like, Shelley's reading my journal right now because I'm 28, actually I'll be 29. I'm almost graduated from my 20s, I still count. But, that is so true.

I feel like there are some times where I just am like, okay, what's the most important thing? Because right now, everything that I'm looking at, all is at level 10? For those of us who are in that season of life, can you just speak some wisdom into helping us navigate this season right now?

Shelley:
Yeah, I think, it's hard to discern sometimes the level of importance of certain things in life. When you're in your 20s and your emotions are still developing as well, you feel easily overwhelmed by everything that comes at you.

It feels ... I think of a lot of my friends who were having kids in their 20s, and all of a sudden, they are not even sure how to manage their own life, and now they're managing toddlers. They're like, "I am unprepared for this. I don't even honestly know how to keep myself on track, and yet I'm responsible for other little lives. Not just responsible for them staying alive, which is a pretty big quest." I think half the days I talk to my friends with toddlers, they say, "We're still alive, and it's five o'clock." I feel pretty good about that. That was a goal, legitimate goal, today was to keep everyone alive in my house.

But you're also responsible for what they think when they think about God. You're also helping them form the ideas that they think about when they think about God. That is a stewardship. If I'm 28 and I'm not right thinking about God, and yet I'm responsible to help form little minds and hearts around what is good and what is important about their relationship with God, I'm like, too much. It's too much pressure.

I think God knows that's where we are when we're at that age, and I think He has so much grace and kindness that He's actually given us the gift of somebody older who can say, "I've been there. Hey, I know what that feels like. It's overwhelming. When you wake up on Thursday, you don't know how you're going to make it through the day until bedtime. Do you?" What if these are the three things that you ultimately want to have? What if knowing God today is the most important thing for your life and for your child.

Rather than entertaining them all day, think about how does knowing God today fit into whatever it is that we do? Help me prioritize, help me figure out what am I supposed to be focused on today? How can I be okay in it and feel like I'm having growth come to my own life so that I can in turn, turn around to the kids that are in my house behind me?

A lot of people are single, and my friends who are single in 28 and 30, and I have a lot of them, are like, "How do I become the person somebody wants to marry? I have all these ideals about who I want to marry, but how do I get to be the person that somebody looks at me and says, "That's the girl I want to marry." I'm like, that's a pretty big question. How do I become today? I'm like, "Unless you do something intentionally, you don't just arrive there."

Never in my life have I just set out to be, I want to be a really great person. I'm not going to actually spend any energy, time, or thought on that; I'm just going to hope that someday I become that. I'm like, well, generally speaking, that doesn't happen. You become what you intend.

Today, some of us need to reset. Kaley, I don't know you personally, I'm excited seeing you, but I would say, "Hey, when you are my age, 55, who do you want to be, and what steps did you take today to become that?" Because you'll only be 28, almost 29, one time. If you don't take hold of whatever that means to you and the amount of time, energy, effort, you have to spend on that, then it's doubtful when you're 55 that you'll be the person that you hope.

Grab hold, say, "You know what, I do want to become and to become a need to take some steps today, and I'm willing to pay whatever price that is, because I know when I'm 55, I'll probably be sitting on the podcast talking about something I came up with.” I'm like, what a gift to the generations that there would just be a legacy of that.

Then, if and when you do have kids, they're watching you going, "Hey, you know what, my mom, she believes this stuff. She didn't put this on and carry this around, it's who she is." Man, that makes me cry. We don't have our own kids, so I've gotten to raise a lot of people that are mentees in my life as my kids and watching them own that as their very own is the highest gifting to my life. It means more to me at 55 than anything I could have expected or prayed for.

Meredith:
I love that, Shelley, so much. Gosh, what a good word of just intentionality in your days and having that long lens for who you want to become. Okay, now it's my turn as a 39-year-old to ask you a question, okay —

Lysa:
Meredith, are you 39?

Meredith:
I just turned 39. Can you believe that?

Lysa:
Happy birthday.

Meredith:
I can't even believe it. When it happened, looked at my husband, Mack, and I was like, "Babe, last lap, here it is. I'm about my last lap —"

Shelley:
You're far from your last lap. However, I do need to say before you ask your question, Meredith, that your children are my favorite children. I have a lot of people who they'd be quite offended by that. Their kids are my favorite. Your kids, the way they interact and the way you interact with them really completely makes my day.

I just want to say, I don't know what you're doing wrong and I'm sure there's a list of things that you —

Meredith:
Oh, yeah.

Shelley:
But you're doing some things right too, girl, because your kids are awesome.

Meredith:
Well, thank you. They are a lot of fun and they're also very challenging. So, thank you for saying that. It's a gift to be their mom, but some days, just like you were saying, I feel like the goal today is to stay alive. We've definitely had our fair share of those. But I did want to ask you a question for a person like me, and I'll give a little context to that for our listeners.

If you do the enneagram, I'm an enneagram eight, which means I have a really hard time letting people in, a really hard time. Vulnerability is my kryptonite. I have been really blessed in my younger years, I would say when I was early teens, early 20s, I had some really significant people in my life that were mentors to me and quite honestly changed my life, the whole trajectory of my life. As I've gotten older and busier, and I think, when you're hurt once by someone, you have a tendency to grow over some scar tissue, and then you think to yourself, what's that saying, “fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me.”

Sometimes I have to really fight those feelings of callousness in my heart because I've been hurt before. Entering into a mentoring relationship is hard and it's vulnerable if it's actually going to be meaningful. What would you say to the girl that's saying, "Yeah, that's nice for you, but I'm not going back down that road again"?

Shelley:
I would say a couple of things. One, and everyone knows this to be true, but we need to repeat it to ourselves daily, no one is perfect. I think that thing in my life that has helped me the most, I've been hurt plenty. You don't lead the kinds of things we lead and not get crushed on the daily, right?

Meredith:
Yep.

Shelley:
But the same grace that I require from other people, I have to be willing to offer to them as well. If I'm going to say, "Well, I was in a situation and I got hurt by that. So, never again, that will never happen again." Then I'm not actually giving people the kind of grace that I actually ask from them every day. I have to remind myself: People need grace. They screw up, they do it wrong, they don't do it perfectly, it's not going to all work. But if they encounter me in a given day, that's also true.

Meredith:
Amen to that.

Shelley:
That's where we are with each other. If the goal is for that person to become your best friend for life, I would say there's a percentage chance that may or may not happen. But if your goal is to enter into a years' relationship with somebody who you can be honest with, who can also be honest with you, who you can hold sacred time together, maybe it's a commitment before you ever start. Listen, I would prefer that none of the words that are spoken together with each other go anywhere, but right here, that's my preference because I'm only going to feel safe if I know that's going to be true.

Maybe there are some boundaries that need to be created for that to be a good relationship, but I'm not expecting you're going to be my best friend for life. You might be. We might get to the end and this mentorship may never end. Right now, I'm committing to a year because I don't know if we're going to be best friends forever, and you're going to be my mentor forever. I just know that I want intentionally to walk with someone ahead of me for a year. Once I do that, I believe, Meredith, for somebody at your age, that you're also mentoring the people behind you at the same time you're being mentored by the people ahead of you, that that goes on for the rest of your life.

Meredith:
So good.

Shelley:
That's the way we're able to create this trail, this heritage of women who are unbroken, who are standing arm in arm, older, all the way to younger, but one solid line. I think it has to happen that way, and I think it's the best way that it can grow us into the people God wants us to be. Take a risk, be wise, don't do it with just anybody, but pray and ask God, "Holy Spirit, lead me to a person who can grow me up this year in these four areas, I'm going to be specific. These are the areas I need growth in, and help me, lead me to a person that can help me do that." I guarantee you that there is someone who would not only help you, but would love to help you. The blessing that you'll be to them will be greater than whatever blessing they give you. That's just the way it works.

Meredith:
That's so good, Shelley. I love what you said just then, just a heritage of unbroken women. Isn't that what we want?

Kaley:
Yes.

Meredith:
That is the vision, the heart of our Father — to create a heritage of unbroken women, and therefore unbroken families, and relationships, and friendships and an unbroken body of Christ.

Kaley:
Amen [inaudible]

Meredith:
That is what we are striving for in these mentor relationships. I can honestly say, I am the product of multiple, really productive mentor relationships. If there are any of our listeners listening right now who maybe are a little bit skeptical or suspicious, like I am naturally, that's the person I am because I have been wounded a lot in my past. Push through it, push through that wall of resistance. Maybe you're listening, and you're like, "That sounds nice and all, but that's very intimidating." Just like we were saying at the beginning of this podcast, this first curriculum, my goodness, what a tool, what a tool it is to get past that resistance that you might feel inside. Get past that maybe just logistical resistance and lean in and see what you can alongside other women, a heritage of unbroken women. It's beautiful.

Meredith:
Shelley, thank you so much. We are so grateful.

Shelley:
I'm grateful being with you guys, thank you for having me.

Meredith:
You have been such a gift to us and generations. Honestly, I look at what you and Louie have built over the years, and my goodness that is ... You have created quite the heritage that the Lord has created in and through you through your obedience. So, thank you so much, and thank you to the Grove team. My word, you guys are amazing. Proverbs 31 is sure grateful to be friends of yours, for sure.

Shelley:
[Inaudible] with you guys, same.

Kaley:
For sure. Well, we believe in equipping women because no matter what stage of life you're in right now, if you're in college, if you're a mom working full-time, or maybe you're even all three, your influence as a woman is bigger than you think. So, Meredith, will you tell them how they can get connected to these resources?

Meredith:
Absolutely. We'd love to connect our listeners to anything that Shelley and her team have been putting out. Go check out Passion City Church, if you are in the Atlanta area. Shelley, you said you guys are up in D.C. too, right?

Shelley:
We are, yes. It's amazing up there.

Meredith:
That's great. If any of our listeners are there, go check them out, but also make sure you visit flourishmentor.com to learn more about the Flourish curriculum and how you can purchase it. They've even got some free resources for beginners in the mentoring journey. Make sure you check that out. I would be remiss to not encourage you to go check them out on the Instagrams too, folks. You can find them at PCC_thegrove on Instagram. Of course, Shelley is a great follow, fantastic content there. Find her at Shelley, and that's S-H-E-L-L-E-Y Giglio, G-I-G-L-I-O for a follow, because I think you'll be really, really encouraged by her content there.

Kaley:
Yeah, for sure. Well, this is about all we have time for today. This was honestly one of my favorite podcast conversations that we've had. This was great. Thank you, Shelley and Lysa, for both taking the time out of your day to join us for the fun and talking through mentorship. Everyone, remember at Proverbs 31, we want to help women know the truth and live the truth of God's Word, because we know that when they do, it changes everything. We'll see you next time.